RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm?

RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (Full Version)

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ExSteelAgain -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/21/2007 6:19:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit The things that I was taught I rarely ever see mentioned or referenced in these forums, short of a few individuals who post there. I'm curious as to what type things you are referring to?

domiguy -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/21/2007 8:22:47 PM)
It is what it is...It allows zillions of people to take a look around this world and investigate many different subjects...this being one....I could care less about whether people a real or cartoons...but one thing I am confident of is that without this medium I wouldn't have had the pleasure of sharing a coinversation learning a few things along the way and having the chance to interact with the folks who frequent CM....So I look upon the internet and BDSM as only being a positive and having no downside whatsoever....aside for the cost of my provider.

robertolapiedra -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/21/2007 9:33:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn I was having a conversation with someone on this the other day. When the Internet first came along, there were those of us who embraced it wholely, and we felt this would manage to bring the bdsm lifestyle into the mainstream. At the same time, there were critics along the way who embraced the Internet kicking and screaming, convinced it would hinder the communities of bdsm by allowing a lot more fakes and lookiloos to make it more difficult for the actual practioners of bdsm to be taken seriously, or to even find each other in the sea of fakeness. So, the Internet has been around for awhile now. Some members of the community have never even known the world without an Internet. So, has it become a good or a bad thing for the concept of bdsm? Hello littlesarbonn. A very good thing. Information is information is information. I bet when someone (18+) wants in, he/she had access to very good information even before testing the 'deviant' waters. That was not the case before. (Dirty books? strange writings in a club's bathroom?) The same phonies and predators existed in the leather days, people are people are people. There were different styles, different philosophies, sure! But less people and 'groups' in the lifestyle (would you believe, not even goreans?). Discretion was recommended ("put your polaroids in a safe!"). The gay community was very much at risk when exiting clubs...(a few actually died from being attacked by gay haters...). Today, no one can say that the internet did not help in the enlightenment of the masses department. As for the annoying part? For me, it's reminds me of when a new 'style' marketing was flooding slow mail with junk mail. In most appartment buildings, it gave rise to the practice of putting a litter basket near the mail boxes, at the entrance. Since we can and do have control of the junk in internet, I view this as the same. As for finding "each other in the sea of fakeness" ? I think the analogy is a sophism, before, we 'easily' found each other in what? a lake? a pound? a puddle? Before? it took time, lots and lots of time depending if you lived near a big city with the right 'specialised' clubs (if you were straight or 'low keyed' it was almost impossible if you did not take a few calculated 'risks'). And most of these 'special clubs' were not all suitable to the variety of 'tastes' we have today. Now? Set up your profile, stay 'real', and sooner or later you will eventually connect to same type 'real' person (goreans unite!). And all this, after much litter basket emptying, of course! ('triage'is a small price to pay in time wasted...) Now, if you want to talk about cell phones going off at the wrong moment with their mood destroying 'cutsie' ring tones? That's another matter! We did not have those in those 'leather' days either. RL.

CuriousLord -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/21/2007 9:58:51 PM)
At some point along the line in evolution, monkeys became relatively indistinguishable from modern humans. Consider such monkeys as well as humans. Factors promoting such monkeys also, in general, contributed to both the individual monkeys and their evolution. In a similar manner, the Internet effects BDSM. BDSM is being promoted- in a way- through community being moreso established. However, it is important to note that the same concept of BDSM is evolving. It's important to understand that evolution necessitates change. After what degree of change is BDSM no longer BDSM? At what point was a monkey human? Did humans, before they took up the study of digging up their ancestors' bones, realize that they had become something new? Would any of us today, proudly tauting an evolved understanding with experience, even be able to recognize changes which may have occured? Dramatic changes? My point being, the Internet promotes the interests of those using it, as they deem their interests to be, and as modified by circumstance. BDSM, classic, should it be such an interest, may find promotion in the Internet. More likely, though, something evolved from BDSM is the true recipient of benifits the Internet may confer.

MadRabbit -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 5:20:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Noah quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit You know...I have asked myself this before and the best answer I can give (though without much clarity), is the true concept of BDSM is something I have heard referenced more as Leather or Old Leather or the Old Ways. Its a concept that has to do with close knit communities, a code of values and honors, traditions and formalities, respect of seniority, and development of character and skills. I was taught a lot about this with my short interactions with a neaby local community, mainly from a man who was somewhat of a mentor to me. The things that I was taught I rarely ever see mentioned or referenced in these forums, short of a few individuals who post there. I imagine its also because a lot of these things have their roots in the gay communities. Many people blame the Internet for the loss of the "Old Ways" and I've heard more than a fair share of people bitch about how new BDSM groups and organizations are increasingly more casual, layed back, and "vanilla" with none of the traditions, protocols, and formalities of the past. So, hence, when people talk about the "true concept of BDSM", I am assuming they are referencing these Leather concepts as opposed to just BDSM and the kinky sex itself. Of course, I could be very inacurrate about this. I still have a lot to learn about the history of all this and a lot of it is very hazy and confusing since a lot of it is word of mouth. As far as the Internet, without it, I would be stuck in a city with almost no scene and a very small undderground and paranoid community and no real way to meet partners my own age short of walking up to random girls and going "Hey, want to be my slave?" Oh dear. Now we have devolved from the already lamentable "concept of BDSM" (as if there were some such unitary thing) to the twue concept of BDSM. This devolution has in its favor that it acknowledges that a multiplicity of views can be taken. Counting against it is that it seems to judge each and every one as false... save the single, gwowius (if not Goreous) twue BDSM, of course. Disgruntled people in most places and times have seemed to yearn for the Old Ways. Bullshit. You glorify the past when your future dries up, somebody said. Mine is pleasantly moist, thanks. The notion that BDSM has essentially to do with grandiose, intricate and restrictive social structures leaves one having to come up with entirely new descriptors for what two people may do together with no input from a kink community, sensing their own submission/dominance, sadism/masochism, etc. and interacting in ways they find fulfilling in just those regards. Pity if they have to fall under the heading of False BDSMers, in my view. Now can someone explain to me what it means to damage a concept? I more or less agree to your line of thinking. Just offering a point of view in response to Faramir.

MadRabbit -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 5:33:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExSteelAgain quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit The things that I was taught I rarely ever see mentioned or referenced in these forums, short of a few individuals who post there. I'm curious as to what type things you are referring to? The forums tend to focus on individual relationships and the activities of BDSM themselves. The "communities" tend to talk more about stuff like this...or at least the ones I have been to with people who identity as Leather... quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Its a concept that has to do with close knit communities, a code of values and honors, traditions and formalities, respect of seniority, and development of character and skills. And most people who go off on a tangent about the "destruction of the concept of BDSM" mostly seem to be talking about the loss of that.

MadRabbit -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 5:35:15 AM)
Double post

WhiplashSmile -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 5:53:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit The forums tend to focus on individual relationships and the activities of BDSM themselves. The "communities" tend to talk more about stuff like this...or at least the ones I have been to with people who identity as Leather... quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Its a concept that has to do with close knit communities, a code of values and honors, traditions and formalities, respect of seniority, and development of character and skills. And most people who go off on a tangent about the "destruction of the concept of BDSM" mostly seem to be talking about the loss of that. I think the reason why such things are not brought to light in a general forums such as here other places on the internet is because, what if I wish for me an my slave to conducts ourselves in the mannerisms of; Old Guard The Gorean ways Kingons from Star Trek Ancient Japanese ways Vulcuns from Star Trek Ancient Roman ways Celtic clans or anything else that floats ones boat. Talk about contrasting code of values, honors, traditions, formalities, respect, character development and skills. I believe many people shy away from injecting specific cultural beliefs into the boards here. This could get as heated as politics and religion do.

SadisticMan -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 6:10:08 AM)
I was just talking about this last night with someone. I think at first the internet was good. People quickly formed groups and such, websites like CM came online and all went well for a while. But with anything, there are groups of spammers ( a term invented because of it's own self) and con artists. You'd get the same thing putting up a cork bulletin board somewhere, or a simple message exchange thing. Doesn't take long for a few to figure out it's a means of communication and thus use it to their needs. It's just human nature to network and we all have our own agenda.

MellowSir -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 6:28:29 AM)
I think it's enhanced understanding of bdsm, downside is online "relationships". Nothing virtual can ever replace true intimacy in person.....

IrishMist -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 7:17:12 AM)
quote: Nothing virtual can ever replace true intimacy in person..... Really? Perhaps, with your ultimate wisdom and understanding, you would like to explain to us what 'TRUE INTIMACY' is? I am very anxious to hear your words on this.

CreativeDominant -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 7:26:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn I was having a conversation with someone on this the other day. When the Internet first came along, there were those of us who embraced it wholely, and we felt this would manage to bring the bdsm lifestyle into the mainstream. At the same time, there were critics along the way who embraced the Internet kicking and screaming, convinced it would hinder the communities of bdsm by allowing a lot more fakes and lookiloos to make it more difficult for the actual practioners of bdsm to be taken seriously, or to even find each other in the sea of fakeness. So, the Internet has been around for awhile now. Some members of the community have never even known the world without an Internet. So, has it become a good or a bad thing for the concept of bdsm? When I was going through my own metamorphosis 10 years ago, I don't know what I would have done without it. From the bad side, I suppose you could say that if the internet had not been there, perhaps I would have looked harder for answers within and along more conventional routes and just maybe...MAYBE being the key word...saved my marriage. I doubt it...but maybe. That being said...I am glad it was there. I learned a lot, both good and bad. Real life has taught me that some of what I learned was B.S. and some of what I learned was worthwhile and good to know. I agree that it is a tool and its value increases or decreases depending on how you use it.

Bella1965 -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 7:27:35 AM)
G'morning all: (Fast Reply) Personally, I find the internet to be a valuable tool. I met my boyfriend/submissive through another site, Alt.com, several years ago. He lives in Pennsylvania while I reside in NY. If not for the web, we never would've met. The internet has allowed me to network and socialize beyond the boundaries of my area. It allows us all to connect with one another and have discussions regarding elements of the lifestyle in a friendly atmosphere. On the other hand, it opens doors for the thrill seekers to ogle from the side lines without committing themselves to a standard or interaction. The fantasy fulfiller's that search for gratification without any understanding, involvement. Which, is just fine. The scene is open to all. People can interpret it and use it as they see fit. It's supposed to be based upon tolerance and we should allow folks to exercise such at their discretion. My only gripe is that I've noticed a break down in courtesy. I've always believed it to be the lubricant of society, any society. Would be nice to see it practiced more often... Stay safe, play nice, & share your toys w/ ohers... [:D] Bella

PrincessEllie -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 7:30:47 AM)
If it wasn't for the internet, I probably wouldn't have known what I was interested in[BDSM] until I was much much older. In my opinion, the internet helped.

TigressFL -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 7:42:46 AM)
I think that it has done both. I have met a lot of wonderful people from the internet. I enjoy being able to chat with like minded people from my home in addition ro going to r/l groups. On the other side of things, I have had to deprogram things learned "online". A lengthy list actually. Thre are pro's and con's for everything in life.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 7:43:08 AM)
To answer this don't you need a fundamental agreement defining the "concept of BDSM"? I have no idea what that is outside of the perspective of my relationship. I'm very confident of my concept and the internet didn't and doesn't contribute to that confidence, or cause it to wane. It amuses me to see people so effected by another's words regarding them that they read on the internet. It speaks to their insecurity. The internet has provided access and opportunity. It is neutral in that regard. It should not be relied upon but it can not be ignored. We met from an internet site; if that reality is pointed to the concept of BDSM than our lives have been greatly enhanced. However we both have met many frauds; speaking to the possibility of "damage". You can't be damaged or enhanced directly by a medium. You can allow yourself to be manipulated and be damaged. You can also use it for its intent; to collect information, make contact, learn, and if fortunate - find someone you want to spend the rest of your life.

MadRabbit -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 8:16:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WhiplashSmile quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit The forums tend to focus on individual relationships and the activities of BDSM themselves. The "communities" tend to talk more about stuff like this...or at least the ones I have been to with people who identity as Leather... quote: ORIGINAL: MadRabbit Its a concept that has to do with close knit communities, a code of values and honors, traditions and formalities, respect of seniority, and development of character and skills. And most people who go off on a tangent about the "destruction of the concept of BDSM" mostly seem to be talking about the loss of that. I think the reason why such things are not brought to light in a general forums such as here other places on the internet is because, what if I wish for me an my slave to conducts ourselves in the mannerisms of; Old Guard The Gorean ways Kingons from Star Trek Ancient Japanese ways Vulcuns from Star Trek Ancient Roman ways Celtic clans or anything else that floats ones boat. Talk about contrasting code of values, honors, traditions, formalities, respect, character development and skills. I believe many people shy away from injecting specific cultural beliefs into the boards here. This could get as heated as politics and religion do. I think its a good thing. Collarme.com has such a diverse crowd that makes it really kind of unique. However, when you go to other forums, ones that cover more of a local area and consists of mostly community members...things are a bit different. I was part of one for awhile that consists mostly of people in Georgia, North Carolina, and South Carolina and all who are part of some group or another. I couldnt help but notice all the people constantly argueing about "following traditions" and "being true to the REAL honorable lifestyle that is BDSM" and how "BDSM was being destroyed by all the casual weekend players." The fanatics who hang thier high hat and look down at all the "non real" people because they dont do it their way are atroctious and one of the reasons I shy more and more away from the community thing. Those discussions are always fun to watch though. However, this place is nothing but a breath of fresh air in that light.

livenlearn -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 8:23:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littlesarbonn I was having a conversation with someone on this the other day. When the Internet first came along, there were those of us who embraced it wholely, and we felt this would manage to bring the bdsm lifestyle into the mainstream. At the same time, there were critics along the way who embraced the Internet kicking and screaming, convinced it would hinder the communities of bdsm by allowing a lot more fakes and lookiloos to make it more difficult for the actual practioners of bdsm to be taken seriously, or to even find each other in the sea of fakeness. So, the Internet has been around for awhile now. Some members of the community have never even known the world without an Internet. So, has it become a good or a bad thing for the concept of bdsm? I think it has done both. It has given a place where a person can learn pretty much anything they want to learn, yet, on the same hand, there are so many resources now that it's hard to determine what is right and what is wrong. Like anything else though, caution is used in discerning the good from the bad ( information wise )

all4yourplsr -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 11:57:25 AM)
No matter what the subject, I will always say the internet is a good thing! In terms of bdsm, it has given those people like myself who probably knew their tendenceies deep down inside a chance to do the research neccessary to find out if those tendencies are legit or just some fantasy. Prior to the internet, I would have never thought I would talk to Mistresses, learn about chastity devices, or find out that my submissive feelings towards women are real.

Pezzle -> RE: Has the Internet enhanced or damaged the concept of bdsm? (5/22/2007 2:45:50 PM)
To me the internet has never been anything but a good tool. Why? I'm young, and as stupid as it sounds i wouldn't have heard about this stuff when I did... or at least identified what that insatiable urge to play cops and robbers but never the cop was, so to speak -laugh-. This is probably a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. Master was afraid at first, thinking I had been bored with vanilla sex that I hadn't had much of yet! You can see the potential problems. However, the internet is a good way to anonymously access information that's otherwise hard to get your hands on.

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