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RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 3:37:08 PM   
farglebargle


Posts: 10715
Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Albany, NY
Status: offline 		The REAL QUESTION IS: ARE WE, AS HUMANS DOING ***ENOUGH*** TO WARM THE EARTH???



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(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 3:40:08 PM   
ElectraGlide


Posts: 1246
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		I said this on another thread, let me re-phrase it. Global warming only happens every 4 years, when the election is over, it does not come back for 4 more years.

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(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 3:42:51 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Just about every scientist in the field are convinced within reasonable doubt that man is contributing dangerously to climate change but the moment one person with a beetle in a matchbox says it is poppy-cock, non-believers attach their entire futures and that of their children and grandchildren to his very words. Believing such people is wishful thinking and just reinforces ones selfish motives about not wanting to have to modify ones lifestyle.


Meat, that's funny, "Non-Believers!"



Sounds a like a little religious zealotry I admit, instead of saying non-believers I should have said ostriches.


Or more correctly, extreme sceptics.

(in reply to meatcleaver)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 3:46:04 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		I am actually looking forward to growing lemons in my back yard.

(in reply to popeye1250)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 3:47:16 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ElectraGlide

I said this on another thread, let me re-phrase it. Global warming only happens every 4 years, when the election is over, it does not come back for 4 more years.


Right....It is a topic that only materializes like preventing gays from getting married.....You hear about this damn near every day....Maybe you only read or watch the news every four years?

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 3:49:15 PM   
MasDom


Posts: 375
Joined: 11/10/2005
Status: offline 		Not like it matters.
Were all going to die in the next 40 years any ways...
    If its not the snow killing our crops, it will be the heat scalding our flesh and killing the elderly.

I say buy your whiskey while you can, and stick it out till the sun go's dead.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 3:55:24 PM   
curiousexplorer


Posts: 77
Joined: 2/1/2007
Status: offline 		"The cycle of the sun and every other reason for the changing climate has been factored in and still there is a discrepency that no one can explain apart from human activity. "

Human activity does not explain any discrepency though. Like gods, human activity just satisfies our egocentric nature. We are so special that anything must be because of us. The earth, well it must have been created for us, plants and animals, to feed us. Climate change, well only we could possibly influence it. And with those thoughts in mind the huiman influenced greenhouse effect was created. By the time it was shown it didn't fit, too many people who couldn't follow it had heard of it.

"No sceptics seem to have an explanation for the discrepency, until they do, they really have no firm ground to stand on"

You have things backwards. Proof is needed first. If I say I can fly, scptics don't have to prove me wrong, I would have to prove me right. Saying it is up to the sceptics is about the same as the flat earhters saying it had to be flat until the sceptics could explain the descepencies in their thinking.

"There is sufficient evidence to at least cast doubt on the non-belief stance.  What harm is there is taking precautions that could benefit our planet one way or another?"

There is sufficient evidence (real evidence) to cast doubt on the theory. Or more precisely, the theory has never been proven to scientific standards. As for taking precautions to benefit the planet, it only works if there is a threat and if the precautions address the actual threat instead of an imagined one.

"I find it kind of scary that so much of the population will fight tooth and nail "proving" that God exists, though there is no proof whatsoever....  yet, can find global warming to be make believe."

I find it scary that you can regognise the lack of evidence in one area, and not another.

"It is apparent that since you refer to Gore as an idiot....I can guess which side of the political landscape you reside"

Guess again. I'm an Aussie and don't really care about American politics. I call Gore an idiot from the ads and media appearances for his movie, nothing to do with politics.

"Please cite sources that back up your views."

Oh yes, becasue everyone else is doing it? Live up to your own expectation before putting them onto others. And if you want a source, get your hand on the original theory and make history be being the first person to get it to work and add up to show human impact has any impact on climate.
Also I find it next to impossible to give sources on this issue, as anyone who has even half an understanding will be using more sources than can be listed. If I threw you one book or a newpaper article or two I wouldn't give me much credit at all. in reality the only person who can sitisfy you, is you. Either treat me comments as inspiration to find out more, or ignore them and be confident in your beliefs and the people you have chosen to follow. All I know is the failure of supporters to address fatal flaws, and the eagerness people have to follow a name.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 4:03:22 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

About a month ago there was a thread in here that said scientists discovered that the planet Mars was also heating up and at the *same rate* as the Earth!
You don't need to be a scientist to know what that means!


Not to pick on you popeye...But if I recall the same article stated that the reasons for Mars warming up was due to an entirely different process than that which is affecting the Earth....So there is no correlation between the two.

quote:

FatDomDaddy
Real climate scienctists are begining to speak out on the myth of man made global warming.


I am all too often baffled about the folks out here who will post anything that they feel gives their position some credibility....Yet don't even to bother to understand the source or the reliability of this information.

The majority of the experts feel that there is a correlation between rising temps and the actions of humans on this planet.   You may not want to believe it....I personally think that "nonbelievers" just hate who the messenger is (Gore) and that they are so closed minded politically that they are simply not willing or capable to even begin to understand the possibility that there might be something factual to the idea.

Edited to add...The reality is that if the climate is changing....Even though we are the leading "polluter" it is a fact that with the rising economies of third world countries, China..etc...I'm not sure what all can be done to correct the situation.


Domiguy, if Mars and Earth are warming up at the *same rate* there can only be one explanation for that; Solar Activity.
And there's absolutely nothing we can do about Solar activity.
Of course that wouldn't fit into the agendas of many orgs especially the "U.N." that would be unable to use it to drain money from Western countries.
I mean what does the "U.N." have to do with this anyway?
That would be like going to a mechanic for a dental problem.

And what if they find another planet that is warming at the *same rate* as Earth and Mars?
That would be absolutely irrifutable evidence that "global warming" is not caused by man.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 5/20/2007 4:08:25 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 4:06:28 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks for citing sources....For years people thought that we could dump whatever we chose into our rivers, great lakes, and oceans without there being any ramifications they are just too vast....Wrong!!!....Well surely if we bury our garbage deep into the Earth that will stop any future problems from arising....Wrong!!!

Why is it so hard for anyone to comprehend that by pouring gasses such as co2 into our atmosphere that there might be possible repercussions...I don't know the science, "It's just not my bag baby"...But I am wise enough to read what I can and reach a conclusion that what is being professed isn't without foundation, and that there appears to be an anamoly in the equation which can be placed at the feat of man.....If you don't believe me feel free to grab a glass and go get a drink of "fresh water" from Lake Michigan....It's quite refreshing.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 5/20/2007 4:07:04 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 4:10:08 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

About a month ago there was a thread in here that said scientists discovered that the planet Mars was also heating up and at the *same rate* as the Earth!
You don't need to be a scientist to know what that means!


Not to pick on you popeye...But if I recall the same article stated that the reasons for Mars warming up was due to an entirely different process than that which is affecting the Earth....So there is no correlation between the two.

quote:

FatDomDaddy
Real climate scienctists are begining to speak out on the myth of man made global warming.


I am all too often baffled about the folks out here who will post anything that they feel gives their position some credibility....Yet don't even to bother to understand the source or the reliability of this information.

The majority of the experts feel that there is a correlation between rising temps and the actions of humans on this planet.   You may not want to believe it....I personally think that "nonbelievers" just hate who the messenger is (Gore) and that they are so closed minded politically that they are simply not willing or capable to even begin to understand the possibility that there might be something factual to the idea.

Edited to add...The reality is that if the climate is changing....Even though we are the leading "polluter" it is a fact that with the rising economies of third world countries, China..etc...I'm not sure what all can be done to correct the situation.


Domiguy, if Mars and Earth are warming up at the *same rate* there can only be one explanation for that; Solar Activity.
And there's absolutely nothing we can do about Solar activity.
Of course that wouldn't fit into the agendas of many orgs especially the "U.N." that would be unable to use it to drain money from Western countries.
I mean what does the "U.N." have to do with this anyway?
That would be like going to a mechanic for a dental problem.

And what if they find another planet that is warming at the *same rate* as Earth and Mars?
That would be absolutely irrifutable evidence that "global warming" is not caused by man.


http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming_2.html

First article when I googled the subject.

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RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/20/2007 6:54:20 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

please quote your sources. It is apparent that since you refer to Gore as an idiot....I can guess which side of the political landscape you reside....Whether someone is opposed to his views or not I have thought of Gore as possessing an above average intelligence.

Please cite sources that back up your views.


This is a general comment, not a slam at your post, domiguy.

I have posted many sources on other threads.  What seems to happen is person X starts or goes to a thread on global warming and is shot down by people who cite sources and the like.

Time passes.

That person or somebody else starts up a thread and makes the same arguments.  Then the same people previously shot down demand to see sources and trashes anybody who comments on the thread for not coming to the thread with all their sources.

I could repost my sources on the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere as proven by core samples in arctic ice. 

I could repost my sources on why the increase in CO2 is man-made. 

I could repost my sources on the increase in Carbonic acid in the oceans destroying coral reefs planet\-wide.

I could do all that, but you know what?  Somebody else with a 7th grade science education who read a book once, but got their facts from Ann Coulter or whoever will come along and rant about the planet not actually warming up.  They will cite the fact that they are having a record cold spell (or whatever) in New York this year as definitive evidence that humans are not negatively impacting the global climate.

I am not going to repost my sources.  If the person is interested in learning something new, they can use the search utility to find previous posts on this same subject.

An example of my point is the question about why this person didnt post this on the thread where I commented about the loss of multiple cubic miles of antarctic ice mass, which was responded to by a a 2 page posting of links to issues people are having building computer models of it.

People are going to believe what they want to believe.  I dont think there is anything you or I can do to get a herd of ostriches to pull their heads out of the sand.

Sinergy

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David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/21/2007 12:08:22 PM   
RythymMan


Posts: 58
Joined: 12/11/2006
Status: offline 		Restate the question.

Would you rather have an energy excess,
or an energy shortage?

For me, the answer is an excess.  Global Cooling would be
much more devastating, althogh too rapid of warming will also
cause problems.  But at least we could run around naked in more places, grow more crops, use less fuel, maybe even figure out
economical de-salination of sea water, PV cells, and wind energy.






(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/21/2007 12:24:01 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RythymMan

Restate the question.

Would you rather have an energy excess,
or an energy shortage?



Seems like a rather obtuse question.

Water, which make up the majority of the percentage of our bodies, exists in a liquid form between 0 degrees C and 100 degrees C.

However, there is a very narrow range where human life is possible.

The reason I state that the question is obtuse is that the cause of global warming is added to by the actions of human beings.  Going with global cooling because of actions of human beings is equally fraught with peril.  My problem I have with the issue is that people are monkeying with the climate in their system space, in ways that are changing it.  From a systems perspective, changes tend to impact other aspects of the system space.  These other changes may be worse for us than an increase in global warmth.

quote:


For me, the answer is an excess.  Global Cooling would be
much more devastating, althogh too rapid of warming will also
cause problems.  But at least we could run around naked in more places, grow more crops, use less fuel, maybe even figure out
economical de-salination of sea water, PV cells, and wind energy.



Well, except for the fact that with the increase of desert lands and the lack of volcanic activity providing topsoil, we could not grow more crops.  We would just get hot.  Eventually too hot for human life to survive.  Our populations on the coastlines would have to move inland.  The system space gets hotter and hotter and hotter as these factors feed on each other and increase.

Google "carbon feedback loop" if you want to know more.

Sinergy



_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to RythymMan)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Global warming debunked yet again. - 5/21/2007 4:11:41 PM   
luckydog1


Posts: 2736
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		There is sufficient evidence to at least cast doubt on the non-belief stance.  I agree there is something going on, and dumping stuff in the air can not be good in the long term..What harm is there is taking precautions that could benefit our planet one way or another?  I don't understand the resistance. 

        In My Opinion there is resistance for several reasons.  I could come up with several "solutions" that would be unacceptable to myself, you and most everyone.  For example, we could Genocide all the nations that have an overabundance of people( African and Asians), use them as slaves to clean up the planet and then render them to clean burning Bio Fuels.  Solves the fuel issue and overpopulation a the same time.  Obviously the Asians and Africans would object.
      The obvious flaws of the Kyoto treaty are another, how many decades have been wasted on that piece of garbage.  It exempts most of the third world where Carbon emmisions are growing exponentially.  Of course those nations liked the idea of a treaty that would force more jobs to move to out of the USA and into  thier regions, and thier Gov scientists agree.   the Eu likes Kyoto, but look at it.  England is running out of Economic Coal and had to switch to NAT Gas anyway.  Germany had to close the horribly polluting plants in the old Communist east anyway, which made them compliant.  And France wants to sell Fission reactors to everyone.  Plus it would just be a step in "putting a cat bell on the USA" making us weaker.  Kyoto was a purley political document.  If the Idea of Carbon Offsets, which was proposed by Bush in 89 or 90 had been accepted Kyoto would have been law for over a decade.  But Now Gore is ok to fly in Private Jets because he pays a Carbon offset.  How can you not see the glaring contradiction there?

Kyoto was such a nonsense Political treaty, it indicates to me that the scientists really do not see much of a threat from Global warming, else they would insist on a real solution, not just moving CO2 emmisions out of the USA.

I think it is better to wait a decade or 2 more untill we have a workable solution than build lots of new fission reactors.

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 34
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