Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (Full Version)

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Hanable -> Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 2:27:07 PM)

i was wondering about writeing a contract for my  future slaves/subs/pets. should i do it? if so... what should i have in it. i mean besides the u cant sue me cuz u singed this and agreeded to it bull. i jsut want opinions so i know what i should be thinking about and such.

H >:)



LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 2:31:59 PM)

Any such contract would be non legal

If you want a legal contract, you need to go through the proper routes.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_545721/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#546253
Contracts- who uses them?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_537964/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#537987
contracts (5)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_507069/mpage_1/key_CONTRACTS/tm.htm#507258
contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_484623/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#485005
contracts, necessary or not?

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=425700&mpage=1&key=contracts&#425768
bdsm contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_15441/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#15441
Master/slave contract

http://www.collarchat.com/m_21514/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#21514
CONTRACT

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1001/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#1001
Contracts for servitude the good, the bad, And why is it so different between Masters n Mistresses?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_1108/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#1108
Contracts?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_17858/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#17858
Should slaves be able to submit to legally binding slave contracts?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_20389/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#20389
Enforcable "slave" contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_22380/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#22380
Contracts (AGAIN *LOL*)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_24502/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#24502
Breaking COntracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_34466/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#34466
Contracts for sub

http://www.collarchat.com/m_46146/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#46146
Contracts (2)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_82470/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#82470
Service "contracts" (no it isn't about legality)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_93072/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#93072
slave contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_96407/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#96407
Contracts, again...

http://www.collarchat.com/m_111463/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#111463
written contracts?

http://www.collarchat.com/m_111845/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#111845
The question of written contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_162840/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#162840
merging wedding vows and Ds contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_212413/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#212413
Contracts (3)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_278323/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#278323
Dom/sub written contracts

http://www.collarchat.com/m_287421/mpage_1/key_contracts/tm.htm#287421
slave contracts, good examples needed

http://www.collarchat.com/m_71935/mpage_1/key_contract/tm.htm#71935
D/s contract



LadyHugs -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 2:43:54 PM)

Dear Hanable, Ladies and Gentlemen;
 
In my mind's eyes I see, a contract is a text document and or oral contract and or agreement.
 
I also find at times the flawed thinking, that a contract is binding as to excuse behavior and or actions which would not be acceptable in any other circumstances and or situations.
 
When writing or creating a contract -- please be mindful that there are ways to create one and the 'spirit of intent' be it honorable or evil will not supercede the laws, rules and regulations of which are on the "Law Books" in the Federal, the State/Commonwealth and or the municiple/city/county."
 
Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
Lady Hugs



Archer -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 2:44:39 PM)

A contract is an agreement, since you have no other party to the contract as yet writting one without knowing what the other party might need is futile.

The value in a contract is not in the final document but in the negotiation that takes place getting to the final document.
Since you can't negotiate with someone until you actually communicate writting one now would be jumping the gun.

Now what you might want to do is write out what protocols you think you might like. Write out what your views on various subjects relating to D/s are. Writting them out helps most people to clarify their views to themselves.
The more clear you are on your own views the more likely it is that you can find a good fit when you find your counterpart.




Hanable -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 4:17:49 PM)

if i said i wanted to write it now i am srry. i meant to say that i wanted to get the thought process starts about one. i do need to write out my thoughts and feelings on many things Archer thank u for mentening it. but my main question was how to go about writing the contract when i need to.

H >:)



chicagochick -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 4:35:55 PM)

As someone who gets the fun job of dealing with contracts every day (either in school or work) the first question you want to ask is, what exactly is the point of the contract? Sounds obvious I know but the more you think about it, the more it narrows the scope. For examply, is this contract going to lay out:

What acts are permissable (ie getting explicit consent upfront so there are fewer questions later)?
That she/he is your "property" (for whatever meaning attaches to that)?
That he/she is "obligated" to serve you?

The other big thing to remember is that the piece of paper isn't worth anything by itself. A contract is only useful as far as you are willing to go to enforce it. In other words, are you willing (or interested) in going to a public court to try and have the contract enforced? In front of a Judge who is likely to think you're a few sandwhiches short of a picnic?

Just a few thoughts. I think the consent issue is the most "valid" reason (against later claims of abuse) but even that is far from foolproof.

Just my .02.






HeavansKeeper -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 7:01:34 PM)

In terms of legality, be careful what you sign.  Not every piece of paper with two signatures is legally binding, but some are.  It comes into play with the members being considered independent contractors.  Depending on the state (and country, of course) certain situations can be legally enforceable.  If the sub signs an agreement to clean home in exchange for room and board, and fails to do so, his or her Dom could TECHNICALLY sue for damages.  Any contract concerning sex will be hard to enforce.  Also, "ownership" of a person, in the form of transferring power of attorney, is very complicated.  It can not be done by a simple contract in any state.  Verbal contracts can be assumed and enforcable, depending on the situation.  To date, I've never heard of a contract where a D/s relationship had damages due to the failure to meet a contract.  Cute fact, one can claim damages over a retracted intent to marry (I quit my job because we were getting married, then she backed out, so I have lost income). In this case a contract would have to be written, though.
 
A contract requires less than you would think. 
 
1) Sane and willing partipants.
2) Consideration (Each person gives up something.)
3) Meeting of the Minds (The terms are agreed upon)
 
This is all VERY basic legal stuff, available on wikipedia and other sites.  The point is, everyone should take contracts seriously.  If you sign it, pretend to see yourself in court with the judge looking at it.  I would throw in the clause "This contract is not valid for legal reasons, it is solely for emotional and moral reasons. This contract may only be editted in writing."
 
Sorry to go all legal-beagle on you guys, but contracts are serious business.



slaverosebeauty -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/15/2007 9:50:23 PM)

You can make a contract legal, despite what you may hear on here, I have done it a few times [written legal and binding contracts - 12 at last count]; it is ALL in how you word things and what words you use. I have one contract in court right now, and the judge an I spoke earlier today and he told me the contract I wrote is holding up, he wanted to know 'why' I chose the words I did. I told him it was 'in the best interest of those concerned.'

I am NOT a notary, but, after I have written any contract [I have worked with lawyers and one helped me to draw up a basic contract that I use as a template, he is a lifestyler], I have all parties concerned take it and sign it in front of a notary and get that stamped. I plan on getting my notary classes done by the end of the year so I can do everything in house. I have not written a contract in about 18 months, if that matters.

Note.. a marriage license IS a contract. Contracts like most other things in this lifestyle ONLY have 'power' if you let them or make them, its all on the honour system for the most part, at least, thats in my experience.



xxblushesxx -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 11:36:57 AM)

My favorite phrase in a contract I once signed said 'slave' will respect Master even when He doesn't deserve it.
[sm=biggrin.gif]



KatyLied -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 11:43:27 AM)

quote:

My favorite phrase in a contract I once signed said 'slave' will respect Master even when He doesn't deserve it.



I think that was very masterful of him![:D]



charismagirrl -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 11:46:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty



I am NOT a notary, but, after I have written any contract [I have worked with lawyers and one helped me to draw up a basic contract that I use as a template, he is a lifestyler], I have all parties concerned take it and sign it in front of a notary and get that stamped. I plan on getting my notary classes done by the end of the year so I can do everything in house. I have not written a contract in about 18 months, if that matters.




Not picking at you, more just mentioning something and then asking something from anyone in general...

If you become a notary you can't notarize your own documents or contracts, you'd still HAVE to go "out of house" for it to be notarized if you were a participant. ( if you didn't intend it to mean that you would notarize your own contracts then i'm sorry for stating the obvious)

This does bring me to a question though, what about notarizing contracts that are worded properly? i mean i know certainly one can't actually, legally own another but if worded properly and notarized could a contract be more legally binding  between a M and an s?.... Also, the power of attorney thing piqued my interest....seems to make it a more binding situation, as of course a marriage liscense would as well.

Just thinking and curious



MadRabbit -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 11:58:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanable

if i said i wanted to write it now i am srry. i meant to say that i wanted to get the thought process starts about one. i do need to write out my thoughts and feelings on many things Archer thank u for mentening it. but my main question was how to go about writing the contract when i need to.

H >:)


Once upon a time, I was sitting where you were, going "How do I actually write out a contract?" "What do I put in it?" "What if all the other dominants laugh at me?" (Ok the last one wasnt that serious).

These questions came from my own "in the box" type of thinking and the misconception that there is a right or wrong way to do it. This was solved by a wise man who said to me over the phone one night... "Look...a contract is simply a peice of paper where you write things down so you dont forget about them."

In any kind of relationship that revolves around structure, you are going to have rules, protocols, etc to define this structure and there is nothing more detrimental than you forgetting your own rules. I used to scorn at contracts and think they were silly...and this attitude quickly changed when I began to forget things and make a huge mess out of everything.

Now...I have this peice of paper where I can clearly write out how everything is and what I want so we can both look at it and go "*headslap* I knew a week ago I said you cant sit on furniture!"

As the relationship progresses, then I can rewrite it to update it as reality throws curve balls at you and that great idea you had of making your slave walk around naked 24/7 isnt that great of an idea when your parents come to visit you.

How to go about writing it is simply however you want to write it out and its individualistic based on the relationship. Some of the things I have learned to include in my little giant sticky note are...

- Limits
- Rules
- Any protocols I expect to be followed on a regular basis
- My own code of ethics that I agree to follow
- Needs of the other partner
- Goals you are working towards. For example, if I want someone to call me "Sir" on a regular basis, then forming that as habit is something I am working towards.

Now I have this nice big reminder of all the details of the relationship that we decided on and can constantly look at it to help keep things on track...best of all, I can call it and write it out like a contract so it adds a nice romantic aspect.



BoiJen -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 12:10:26 PM)

I thought about doing a contract once...I was told the contract would essentially be a one liner.

"I will serve and do my best to please _________ and to ensure this I will communicate my wants, desires, and needs in the most effective manner available to me. I will also listen and use the tools provided to me as to ensure that communication flows both ways in this power dynamic.

Signed _______________"

Then we decided we do that anyways so what's the point?

Everything else evolves and changes.



charismagirrl -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 1:09:45 PM)

oh i did want to add to this thread...

When drawing up the contract for my Master/Daddy and i, i did a search for all of the contracts that i could find on the internet. i saved them all and read them, then i began to copy and paste the stuff i thought pertained to us or could pertain to us.

Then i kept some of the wording and redid some it until we had a contract that worked for us.

Then once i was done, my Daddy read through it and filled in some areas, such as private duties and responsibilies, public conduct and responsibilities and punishment possibilities and reasons for them.

So maybe if you look at some that are out there you will get an idea and then make them your own, in your own way.

(or you can simply keep a slip of paper in your wallet that your slave has signed saying that her body is yours like my Daddy does [:)]...he says that it is our real contract lol)



slaverosebeauty -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 2:45:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: charismagirrl
Not picking at you, more just mentioning something and then asking something from anyone in general...

If you become a notary you can't notarize your own documents or contracts, you'd still HAVE to go "out of house" for it to be notarized if you were a participant. (if you didn't intend it to mean that you would notarize your own contracts then i'm sorry for stating the obvious)

This does bring me to a question though, what about notarizing contracts that are worded properly? i mean i know certainly one can't actually, legally own another but if worded properly and notarized could a contract be more legally binding  between a M and an s?.... Also, the power of attorney thing piqued my interest....seems to make it a more binding situation, as of course a marriage liscense would as well.

Just thinking and curious



I do understand what you are saying. If I got my notary license thingie, I would provide a 'template' of sorts for those who wanted a legally binding contract. After they filled inthe blanks basically, signed and dated it, as a notary I could make it legal. If I wrote up a contract from scratch or did the 'filling in' the blanks part, THEN I would have another notary htat I know, or one of that couples choise notarize the document after I made sure it was able to be notarized.

Let me see if this makes more sence, you CAN make a legal binding contract, you CANNOT legally own another {the constitution sates as much}, you can participate in a relationship by your own definition and hw you desire within the limits of the law. Basically, you chose what words you use very carefully, such as in lue 'slave' you would use the bottom-type's name; instead of 'Master' you would use the top-type's name. Depending on the type of relationship, you would lay out other very carefully worded ammendments [Party A will maintain the household - cleaning, appearance, etc, whereas Party B will work outside of the home in order to maintain and reside in the household in question.], just like in a contract. Its ALL about wording, its nausiatign after about 10 hours of working on a contract, but, int he end, its worth it.

I don't know much about a POA [Power of Attorney], I have used one before in my own personal life, yet, I had/have my mother listed as such due to the freakin medical bs I have been fighting for years. Its a contract, it just says that she can make medical choices for me if I become unable to do so. Simple contract.

{note - the contract the was being questioned in court, was upheld earlier today,. yea me .. one bad top goes to jail, and one sweet bottom gets her divorce}



charismagirrl -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 3:07:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaverosebeauty


I don't know much about a POA [Power of Attorney], I have used one before in my own personal life, yet, I had/have my mother listed as such due to the freakin medical bs I have been fighting for years. Its a contract, it just says that she can make medical choices for me if I become unable to do so. Simple contract.




Isn't that a medical proxy (or something like that)? my Mother was my Aunt's when she passed away last month and they called that a medical proxy  and then someone else was the POA -or the one in charge of her finances and how all of the medical bills etc would be paid...Or can the POA do both and then if the person requests a seperate party to actually make the decisions needed then they can do that?



slaverosebeauty -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 3:13:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: charismagirrl
Isn't that a medical proxy (or something like that)? my Mother was my Aunt's when she passed away last month and they called that a medical proxy  and then someone else was the POA -or the one in charge of her finances and how all of the medical bills etc would be paid...Or can the POA do both and then if the person requests a seperate party to actually make the decisions needed then they can do that?



I think its both. I have a Living Will, a Will, POA and something else {yes at 26, I have all of those up to date, an I will be updating them this summer since my medical stuff has changed}  I was told that POA gave my mother FULL power to handle my affairs, mdeical, legal, custody, etc in the event that I was unable to do so. All I know is htat before I had surgery last July, I spoke with my mother's attorney and she helped me get a POA filled out and updated my Will and Living Will. I leave the BIG legal stuff the lawyers, I just read and sign.



stella40 -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 3:23:05 PM)

I would make more specific suggestions but:

1. I don't know you, what you expect,want, need, or require from the relationship.

2. I don't know anything about the relationship you wish to contract, and please bear in mind you're writing about a contract for a relationship, and not say a position in a company where the situation would be pretty clear.

All I can suggest is:

1. A contract exists between two or more parties. Writing a contract on the basis of one party without any knowledge of the other is difficult, often to the point of meaningless.

2. You want a contract, but does that other person? What if your relationship with that person is such that you don't need a contract?

3. Try not to walk around with a frame trying to fit someone into it. Instead appreciate the art, then frame it.



MsKatHouston -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 3:27:07 PM)

Good advice so far on how to begin the thought process.  However, just keep in mind that if you do have a written contract it is also proof of certain activities in which you engage.  Is there anything you can think of where such a document might bite you in the butt? 



juliet66 -> RE: Slave/Sub/Pet Contracts... (5/16/2007 3:36:37 PM)

Hello How are you doing toiday i am juliet by name.....my name affress is [email protected]



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