Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (Full Version)

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Real0ne -> Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/11/2007 10:35:30 AM)

"Around the Pentagon there were reports of high radiation levels after 9-11. American Free Press has documentation
that radiation levels in Alexandria and Leesburg, Va., were much higher than usual on 9-11 and persisted for at least one
week afterward. In Alexandria, seven miles south of the burning Pentagon, a doctor with years of experience working
with radiation issues found elevated radiation levels on 9-11 of 35 to 52 counts per minute (cpm) using a "Radalert 50"
Geiger counter. One week after 9-11, in Leesburg, 33 miles northwest of the Pentagon, soil readings taken in a
residential neighborhood showed even higher readings of 75 to 83 cpm. "That's pretty high," Cindy Folkers of the
Washing ton-based Nuclear Information and Resource Service (NIRS) told AFP. Folkers said 7 to 12 cpm is normal
background radiation inside the

http://www.ziopedia.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=3776








SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/11/2007 4:34:49 PM)

RealOne

It truly depends on the isotope that is being measured since there are different safety levels for different isotopes. High for one may be considered low for another. I'm already running late however I will try to get some links to various safety levels of individual isotopes for you.  This is truly not as scary as it sounds.

On a side note I'm studying radiology (about to graduate) with a clinical interest in Nuclear Medicine, so I'm not just talking out my ass here.




thornhappy -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/11/2007 5:33:08 PM)

Hi folks--

Geez, the link is to "All You Wanted To Know About Zionism".  (Hopefully, RealOne, you won't be telling us that 4000 Jews were absent from the WTC complex on 9-11.) 

On the radiation front, it looks like The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy at work; they do not clearly state what the levels were before, they only claim that they were above a typical background level.  Background levels will vary from site to site, up to 140 (granite/rock/near seal level).  The Radalert 50, contrary to the article, detects gamma, beta, and alpha radiation, according to the manufacturer. 

There's a good entry on DU at:http://www.uic.com.au/nip53.htm which is quoted below:

"Health aspects of DU Depleted uranium is not classified as a dangerous substance radiologically, though it is a potential hazard in large quantities, beyond what could conceivably be breathed. Its emissions are very low, since the half-life of U-238 is the same as the age of the Earth (4.5 billion years). There are no reputable reports of cancer or other negative health effects from radiation exposure to ingested or inhaled natural or depleted uranium, despite much study. However, uranium does have a chemical toxicity about the same as that of lead, so inhaled fume or ingested oxide is considered a health hazard. Most uranium actually absorbed into the body is excreted within days, the balance being laid down in bone and kidneys. Its biological effect is principally kidney damage. WHO has set a Tolerable Daily Intake level for U of 0.6 microgram/kg body weight, orally. (This is about eight times our normal background intake from natural sources.) Standards for drinking water and concentrations in air are set accordingly. Like most radionuclides, it is not known as a carcinogen, or to cause birth defects (from effects in utero) or to cause genetic mutations. Radiation from DU munitions depends on how long the uranium has been separated chemically from its decay products. If thorium-234 and protactinium-234 has built up through decay of U-238, these will give rise to some beta emissions. On this basis, DU is "weakly radioactive" with an activity of 39 kBq/g quoted (15 kBq/g if pure, compared with 25 kBq/g for pure natural uranium). In 2001 the UN Environment Program examined the effects of nine tonnes of DU munitions having been used in Kosovo, checking the sites targeted by it. UNEP found no widespread contamination, no sign of contamination in water of the food chain and no correlation with reported ill-health in NATO peacekeepers. A two-year study by Sandia National Laboratories in USA reported in 2005 that consistent with earlier studies, reports of serious health risks from DU exposure during the 1991 Gulf War are not supported by medical statistics or by analysis. Thus DU is clearly dangerous for people in vehicles which are military targets, but for anyone else - even in a war zone - there is little hazard. Ingestion or inhalation of uranium oxide dust resulting from the impact of DU munitions on their targets is the main possible exposure route. See also Appendix and WHO fact sheet on DU."
thornhappy (not expecting a change of mind from the RealOne)






Real0ne -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/11/2007 9:01:42 PM)

Interesting post.

The thing that nags me is why are there claims that its radiation poisioning that is causing cancer?  i remember japn in ww2 and they had much of the same problem, likewise chernobyl etc.   So without much thought it seemed to me to be quite reaosnable it was radiation since they claim increased levels.

Apparently they found vaporized steel, that combined with the EM blackout for several surrounding blocks the puzzle does sort of fit together to make a picture.




minnetar -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/11/2007 9:16:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

"Around the Pentagon there were reports of high radiation levels after 9-11. American Free Press has documentation
that radiation levels in Alexandria and Leesburg, Va., were much higher than usual on 9-11 and persisted for at least one
week afterward. In Alexandria, seven miles south of the burning Pentagon, a doctor with years of experience working
with radiation issues found elevated radiation levels on 9-11 of 35 to 52 counts per minute (cpm) using a "Radalert 50"
Geiger counter. One week after 9-11, in Leesburg, 33 miles northwest of the Pentagon, soil readings taken in a
residential neighborhood showed even higher readings of 75 to 83 cpm. "That's pretty high," Cindy Folkers of the
Washing ton-based Nuclear Information and Resource Service (NIRS) told AFP. Folkers said 7 to 12 cpm is normal
background radiation inside the

http://www.ziopedia.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=3776







You point x amount of miles from one thing or another.  If it was a cancer scare wouldn't it be a radius of x amount of miles rather than in a direct direction of x miles?  i don't understand the direct correlation.

minnetar




thornhappy -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/12/2007 6:46:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Interesting post.

The thing that nags me is why are there claims that its radiation poisioning that is causing cancer?  i remember japn in ww2 and they had much of the same problem, likewise chernobyl etc.   So without much thought it seemed to me to be quite reaosnable it was radiation since they claim increased levels.

Apparently they found vaporized steel, that combined with the EM blackout for several surrounding blocks the puzzle does sort of fit together to make a picture.


what EM blackout?




DomKen -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/12/2007 10:23:04 AM)

I think he's trying to claim a nuke was used at the Pentagon. Which of course is complete and utter nonsense. The smallest nuclear yield possible is far larger than what happened at the Pentagon.

As to an EM blackout I think he's claiming an ElctroMagnetic Pulse effect from this single supposed detonation. Which is quite simply impossible. EMP detectable outside the zone of total destruction is not associated with nuclear detonations below 10km altitude. Also the power of the EMP is directly related to the yield of the detonation and a tiny explosion would create a very weak EMP unlikely to cause disruption even at the point of detonation. 

As usual unreal is listening to conspiracy nuts, in this case antisemites as well, over reality.




SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/12/2007 2:16:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

Interesting post.

The thing that nags me is why are there claims that its radiation poisioning that is causing cancer?  i remember japn in ww2 and they had much of the same problem, likewise chernobyl etc.   So without much thought it seemed to me to be quite reaosnable it was radiation since they claim increased levels.

Apparently they found vaporized steel, that combined with the EM blackout for several surrounding blocks the puzzle does sort of fit together to make a picture.



Because radiation poisoning... Which isn't the technically correct term to begin with it should be radiation exposure....does have a percentage of possible cause in cancer (as a non stochastic effect).  Meaning it can be a factor in someone being diagnosed with cancer but that person is usually predisposed genetically to get cancer to begin with; it does not necessarily mean that being diagnosed with cancer was a stochastic effect of being exposed to higher levels of radiation than is considered safe.

Meaning not everyone that is exposed to that higher than safe level will get cancer. Someone predisposed genetically to cancer will have a higher chance of getting cancer when the radiation exposure is factored in with everything else. Make sense?

These higher dosages can also cause genetic mutations within the DNA in future generations. Do some research into The Radium Girls of the 20's/30's in Ottowa, IL or the post Chernobyl or Love Canal/Three Mile Island/Hiroshima clusters and genetic mutations in the following generations. 





Real0ne -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/12/2007 4:37:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck
These higher dosages can also cause genetic mutations within the DNA in future generations. Do some research into The Radium Girls of the 20's/30's in Ottowa, IL or the post Chernobyl or Love Canal/Three Mile Island/Hiroshima clusters and genetic mutations in the following generations. 




sounds like a good way to create monsters and clean up the genetically inferior at the same time!  Will it work on politicians too?  LOL

So then you agree that that if there was a nuke it would show up in a higher rate of cancer incidences?




SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/12/2007 11:40:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck
These higher dosages can also cause genetic mutations within the DNA in future generations. Do some research into The Radium Girls of the 20's/30's in Ottowa, IL or the post Chernobyl or Love Canal/Three Mile Island/Hiroshima clusters and genetic mutations in the following generations. 




sounds like a good way to create monsters and clean up the genetically inferior at the same time!  Will it work on politicians too?  LOL

So then you agree that that if there was a nuke it would show up in a higher rate of cancer incidences?



I have to apologize I reversed non stochastic and stochastic in my earlier post. I was rushing to get to work and didn't edit.

No I would not necessarily agree, the levels of radiation exposure in a nuke are different than the radiation ecposure one gets from xrays or even on a plane trip. Meaning it may be a factor in those predisposed to cancer to begin with but it will not cause cancer in everyone willy-nilly (non stochastic effect). Does that make sense?

I can't reproduce the entire thing but try this link for clarification of Non stochastic and stochastic effects of radiation exposure. Cancer from radiation is caused by chronic (repeated) low levels of exposure over time. Although there does seem to be a link between skin cancer and radiation exposure more so than any other.

A nuke going off would be high level single exposure causing radiation sickness and death. In other words, you aren't going to be around long enough to get cancer. Again the basis of it is the amount of radiation that one is exposed to and the period of time of exposure.

Then again there seems to be higher predisposition to cancer in those resulting generations in areas of high volume short term exposure. Places like Chernobyl, Hiroshima, Marshall Islands etc. I would still go with this being a genetic abnormality caused by radiation exposure since the ensuing generations weren't obviously around at the time of the exposure.


http://www.epa.gov/radiation/understand/health_effects.htm




Real0ne -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/13/2007 4:03:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck
These higher dosages can also cause genetic mutations within the DNA in future generations. Do some research into The Radium Girls of the 20's/30's in Ottowa, IL or the post Chernobyl or Love Canal/Three Mile Island/Hiroshima clusters and genetic mutations in the following generations. 




sounds like a good way to create monsters and clean up the genetically inferior at the same time!  Will it work on politicians too?  LOL

So then you agree that that if there was a nuke it would show up in a higher rate of cancer incidences?



I have to apologize I reversed non stochastic and stochastic in my earlier post. I was rushing to get to work and didn't edit.

No I would not necessarily agree, the levels of radiation exposure in a nuke are different than the radiation ecposure one gets from xrays or even on a plane trip. Meaning it may be a factor in those predisposed to cancer to begin with but it will not cause cancer in everyone willy-nilly (non stochastic effect). Does that make sense?

I can't reproduce the entire thing but try this link for clarification of Non stochastic and stochastic effects of radiation exposure. Cancer from radiation is caused by chronic (repeated) low levels of exposure over time. Although there does seem to be a link between skin cancer and radiation exposure more so than any other.

A nuke going off would be high level single exposure causing radiation sickness and death. In other words, you aren't going to be around long enough to get cancer. Again the basis of it is the amount of radiation that one is exposed to and the period of time of exposure.

Then again there seems to be higher predisposition to cancer in those resulting generations in areas of high volume short term exposure. Places like Chernobyl, Hiroshima, Marshall Islands etc. I would still go with this being a genetic abnormality caused by radiation exposure since the ensuing generations weren't obviously around at the time of the exposure.


http://www.epa.gov/radiation/understand/health_effects.htm


right so you are saying that long term exposure to elevated radiation or short term exposure to high radiation will cause sickness and or health issues, but not necesarily in ever single person.  (some people are healthier than others).

That and also y0ou are saying that extreme exposure even short term will result in severe sickness and death.

That and not all radiation is created equal.

The gov site would agree with that.

So they believe that elevated levels of radiation is causing this to show up in those people with a weakend condition as you suggested.

i do not see a dispute between what you said and the article.




thornhappy -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/13/2007 1:04:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think he's trying to claim a nuke was used at the Pentagon. Which of course is complete and utter nonsense. The smallest nuclear yield possible is far larger than what happened at the Pentagon.

As to an EM blackout I think he's claiming an ElctroMagnetic Pulse effect from this single supposed detonation. Which is quite simply impossible. EMP detectable outside the zone of total destruction is not associated with nuclear detonations below 10km altitude. Also the power of the EMP is directly related to the yield of the detonation and a tiny explosion would create a very weak EMP unlikely to cause disruption even at the point of detonation. 

As usual unreal is listening to conspiracy nuts, in this case antisemites as well, over reality.

Man, if there was EMP you'd see a whole bunch of stuff down, communications to computers, and even modern vehicles.

Generic reasons for comm going down in the area of the WTC would simply be the destruction of some base stations, and worse, the destruction of the phone switches in the basement of the North or South tower (can't remember which one, but the switches were flooded.)

On the radiation front, another hazard in industry and with nukes is the neutron flux. 

thornhappy




SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/13/2007 1:17:46 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck
These higher dosages can also cause genetic mutations within the DNA in future generations. Do some research into The Radium Girls of the 20's/30's in Ottowa, IL or the post Chernobyl or Love Canal/Three Mile Island/Hiroshima clusters and genetic mutations in the following generations. 




sounds like a good way to create monsters and clean up the genetically inferior at the same time!  Will it work on politicians too?  LOL

So then you agree that that if there was a nuke it would show up in a higher rate of cancer incidences?



I have to apologize I reversed non stochastic and stochastic in my earlier post. I was rushing to get to work and didn't edit.

No I would not necessarily agree, the levels of radiation exposure in a nuke are different than the radiation ecposure one gets from xrays or even on a plane trip. Meaning it may be a factor in those predisposed to cancer to begin with but it will not cause cancer in everyone willy-nilly (non stochastic effect). Does that make sense?

I can't reproduce the entire thing but try this link for clarification of Non stochastic and stochastic effects of radiation exposure. Cancer from radiation is caused by chronic (repeated) low levels of exposure over time. Although there does seem to be a link between skin cancer and radiation exposure more so than any other.

A nuke going off would be high level single exposure causing radiation sickness and death. In other words, you aren't going to be around long enough to get cancer. Again the basis of it is the amount of radiation that one is exposed to and the period of time of exposure.

Then again there seems to be higher predisposition to cancer in those resulting generations in areas of high volume short term exposure. Places like Chernobyl, Hiroshima, Marshall Islands etc. I would still go with this being a genetic abnormality caused by radiation exposure since the ensuing generations weren't obviously around at the time of the exposure.


http://www.epa.gov/radiation/understand/health_effects.htm


right so you are saying that long term exposure to elevated radiation or short term exposure to high radiation will cause sickness and or health issues, but not necesarily in ever single person.  (some people are healthier than others).

That and also y0ou are saying that extreme exposure even short term will result in severe sickness and death.

That and not all radiation is created equal.

The gov site would agree with that.

So they believe that elevated levels of radiation is causing this to show up in those people with a weakend condition as you suggested.

i do not see a dispute between what you said and the article.



Yes, that is the jist of it. Correct.




Real0ne -> RE: Radiation - Cancer - Endless Coincidences (5/13/2007 4:44:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I think he's trying to claim a nuke was used at the Pentagon. Which of course is complete and utter nonsense. The smallest nuclear yield possible is far larger than what happened at the Pentagon.

As to an EM blackout I think he's claiming an ElctroMagnetic Pulse effect from this single supposed detonation. Which is quite simply impossible. EMP detectable outside the zone of total destruction is not associated with nuclear detonations below 10km altitude. Also the power of the EMP is directly related to the yield of the detonation and a tiny explosion would create a very weak EMP unlikely to cause disruption even at the point of detonation. 

As usual unreal is listening to conspiracy nuts, in this case antisemites as well, over reality.

Man, if there was EMP you'd see a whole bunch of stuff down, communications to computers, and even modern vehicles.

Generic reasons for comm going down in the area of the WTC would simply be the destruction of some base stations, and worse, the destruction of the phone switches in the basement of the North or South tower (can't remember which one, but the switches were flooded.)

On the radiation front, another hazard in industry and with nukes is the neutron flux. 

thornhappy




well you know how it goes.  when you cannot get the truth out of your government every possible avenue has to be examined as probable until found otherwise.  i remember hearing on the news they said that either the firemen or police or both lost contact with the control center for i believe 20 minutes.   Its anyones guess what happened.

If more people watched alex jones they woudl discover that loss of police communication was because FEMA cut the lines at katrina, that was in a live  interview with the chief of police who said a couple of officers who knew something abou tit got it back up and running in a few hours.

So as far as i am concerned everything is up for grabs..




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