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Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train harder. - 5/11/2007 8:44:02 AM   
pup


Posts: 69
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Anaheim, CA, US
Status: offline 		One of the hardest things people face in a relationship is the slow down.

I am a big fan of slipping on the restraints, chains, gag, hood, whatever to show .. Hey .. exciting slave here ..  wanna watch tv .. beat ass .. just watch .. whatever. Just putting on handcuffs and settling in a loved ones lap can help spark things.

The issue I am dealing with is love ..  It is hard for my Dominant to be hard on their Alpha as I am so self maintaining, and very non toppy from the bottomish.

We try to go back to a week or two of hard slave or puppy training every year or so, just so I can taste that hard line every so often. But each time its tried, it seems to get more and more difficult for my Dom.

My Dom will try very hard to strict, chain my collar to wall on my pet bed.. use prisoner transport techniques even to go to the bathroom, but that damn love factor gets in the way. I deep down want to be bound harsh so that its even hard to sleep if only for a night, but the meer mention of a bit of uncomfort, and out comes the squishy effect of protecting my Doms alpha, and all the cuffs except the neck chain come off.

Im a bit of a sam, I cant help laughing my ass off when a chain falls loose, or a knot comes undone, or a key is accidently left in reach. I am a severly left brain person, and mental bondage does not work on me at all. Even when I try REALLY hard, my logic center says .. hey .. your uncomfortable .. key, tool, wire pick, is right there within reach. No problem. Im out.

It causes a conundrum between myself wanting to be in restriction, and wanting her to be hard on me for those periods, but if an emotion overwhelms me, my Doms "empathic?" nature wants to comfort me. I am very empathic and anticipatory of her needs, and I think as an Alpha she has developed that side along with me.

She has no problem with the other two beta slaves, but we have too much of a connection. And regardless of how much we talk and communicate, strict bondage or behavior mod, or pet play only winds up lasting a couple days before its broken down. When she sets upon a week or more, and I am mentally prepared for it.

It disheartens me more each time, so I want to ask for suggestions or ideas in communicating in a way a Dominant can understand.

Being empathic and a kind heart, I am very good at communicating to her, but maybe I am missing something from the Dom perspective as I am total bottom pig. As in she cant understand getting pleasure from doing housework .. and I cant understand why someone wouldnt get pleasure from putting a smile on someone elses face.

Are we just to that point where my harder training has to be outsourced to a more deattached party?

I wouldnt mind that option, but we know each other so well, and all my training is perfect with her, and most importantly I trust her beyond my life, which is very difficult to establish with another trainer.


Any input would be greatly appreciated.


I use the term Dom / Dominant as the person I speak of is not my "owner" persay, but more my mentor and leather mom. But I have lived and trained under her for some 13 years.

_____________________________

A pony boy, a puppy, and many others trapped in a cage..
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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 10:27:49 AM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		If you have tried communication, and have given it an honest effort, then perhaps the dynamic simply isn't working for either of you. It is impossible to say without knowing the other side of the story. I wish you well.

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

(in reply to pup)
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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 10:51:31 AM   
pup


Posts: 69
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Anaheim, CA, US
Status: offline 		Thank you very much for the reply,

Our day to day Dom / servant dynamic works exceptionally well. And I certainly wouldn't give anything like it up.

Our play dynamic is also great, we enjoy shibari and many wonderful kink and bondage related things.

It's when we go for a deeply spiritual TPE or training situation that requires harsher methods that things get muddled. The sustainment of a set headspace or dynamic for a long period is what proves difficult.

< Message edited by pup -- 5/11/2007 10:53:24 AM >

_____________________________

A pony boy, a puppy, and many others trapped in a cage..

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 6:35:53 PM   
robertolapiedra


Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hell pup! Sounds to me you are completely gaga for your dominant. Enjoy it. Let your dominant enjoy it too. I would not worry about this from what I understand of your post. things will evolve with time and mutual experience. Slow downs are normal just as speed ups are.What's your rush? RL.

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 7:05:22 PM   
slaveish


Posts: 1086
Joined: 2/19/2007
Status: offline 		Great point, Roberto. ~smiling~ I will remember to drop you a message when I face those inevitable slow-ups. Or ... did you say double-downs ... ? Noooo, that's poker ... hmmmmmmmmmm ...

_____________________________

You only lose what you cling to. ~~Gautama Sidharta

If we have no peace, it is because we have forgotten that we belong to each other. ~~Mother Teresa

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 7:53:53 PM   
lighthearted


Posts: 1165
Joined: 11/26/2006
Status: offline 		I've faced that problem in the past, and I may face it in the future...but in the end, if the good outweighs the bad, then why expect perfection?   you've got your share in this too...if you see the key in reach, why not point it out to be taken away, instead of using it?  why expect your dom/me to be perfect and remember to put it up high?

have you tried having one of the beta slaves being the one to do the tying/chaining etc?  I bet they would make sure that you couldn't get away

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"Thou art to me a delicious torment." - Ralph Waldo Emerson

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 8:27:05 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		You seem perfectly capable of preparing your thoughts in a logical manner. So, present these thoughts to you Dominant in the manner that you have presented it here. Explaining your needs is not topping from the bottom, it's communication. Communicating with a Dominant really shouldn't be any different than communicating to anyone else...except, maybe presented more respectfully if it is required.
 
Good luck!

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 9:04:45 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		I would be shocked if the Dom did not already fully understand the problem. What is not happening is their ability to control their emotions when they get in the way. Better communication that you are unhappy with this flaw in them will hurt rather than help. I would make sure that they know that you want more, and then either make piece with what she can offer or move on.

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 9:27:16 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ICGsteve

I would be shocked if the Dom did not already fully understand the problem. What is not happening is their ability to control their emotions when they get in the way. Better communication that you are unhappy with this flaw in them will hurt rather than help. I would make sure that they know that you want more, and then either make piece with what she can offer or move on.


I don't understand why you would feel that open communication would be harmful...aside from calling it a flaw within the Dominant. That's not what I read in the OP, at all. 13 years is a lot to throw away for the Dominant partner being human.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to ICGsteve)
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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 10:13:13 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		Look at it this way: If you are lazy and that gets in the way of your relationship, is your partner pointing out that your laziness means that he/she does not get what they need out of the relationship going to help at all? No, it is just going to make you feel bad about yourself, cause you to withdraw from the relationship because you will then feel like your are not good enough for your partner.

I am all for communication, but once you start communicated that your partner's self is not what you want/need  the relationship is in danger. If you feel that your partner could do better at not being lazy then by all means bring it up, it might help. But once you figure out that they are just being them, communication of the problem works in reverse of solving it.

In this case the OP suggests that the Dom is doing the best they can. The Dom really wants to make this work, but the emotions keep getting in the way of her being a strict with her sub as the sub needs her to be. They have talking about this many times before, they have tried to solve this problem many times before, but the Dom is being who she is. She can't do more than that. If this is the case communicating that this is a big problem for the sub is relationship dynamite. The sub must make peace with the Doms current limitations or move on. If the sub does not make peace then sooner rather than latter the relationship will blow-up anyway.

< Message edited by ICGsteve -- 5/11/2007 10:15:28 PM >

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 10:20:12 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		I don't think the OP has a problem with the Dominant's "self". I'm trying to understand your POV, but it's not making any sense to me...I can't even debate it. Could be me, though, I'm tired.
 
I just think that this can be overcome with communication and some work. I didn't see anywhere in the OP where she said that either of them was lazy...so, some work on a long term relationship doesn't seem like a bad thing to me. But, that's just my opinion.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to ICGsteve)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 10:36:31 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		"emotional response to comfort the sub which gets in the way of a mutually desired BDSM dynamic" is a bit complicated. I was using "laziness" as a parallel concept to illustrate the point more easily. Laziness is not the stated problem is this case.

This problem can be solved only if the emotional response can be made to no longer keep the Dom from doing to her sub what they both desire that she does. IE, the Dom needs to change who she  is before this problem will be solved. It can happen, but the Dom has to make it happen.

(in reply to spanklette)
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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 10:47:06 PM   
spanklette


Posts: 882
Joined: 2/22/2005
Status: offline 		Does the Dom or the dynamic need to change?
 
Sure, it's easier said than done, but re-evaluating relationships should come with time, anyway. It doesn't necessarily have to be a sit-down talk, but I think we all re-evaluate in some form or another.
 
In this case, I think a sit down conversation about needs and the nature of their relationship is needed. Sure, change is tough, but not impossible.

_____________________________

~spanklette~

"The important thing is this: to be able at any moment to sacrifice what we are for what we could become. " Charles du Bois

"Please don't shout, can't you see I'm not listening." Billie Myers

(in reply to ICGsteve)
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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 10:56:11 PM   
ICGsteve


Posts: 202
Joined: 2/2/2005
Status: offline 		So you are going to sit down with your partner and tell them that you need to relationship to go someplace that you already know they can't currently go.......What the heck is the point in that? It would be much more kind to pick-up and go with no explanation.

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 11:44:54 PM   
DominaSmartass


Posts: 961
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: This month? Maryland
Status: offline 		I can really empathize with your dom and feel like I have a similar problem from the opposite direction as you. That is, I have very strong sadistic desires but even my best laid plans get put aside if I think I might be hurting the one I love. One thing I recently discovered was that I am going to need him to tell me that he really wants me to do certain things, that he wants and needs me to really hurt him, and that it's ok. I know that might sound silly to some people who don't think I should need that type of reassurance as a dom but whatever...I do. I'm sure things are different for you given that you've been with her for so long but maybe she just needs a reminder of how much you want and need that harsher treatment and that it's OK, you'll still love her even if she's mean and hurts you. Best of luck, and oh yeah, don't listen to any of the people on here who will tell you you're dynamic just isn't working and you'd best leave. They say that to everyone.


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“These S&M people ... they are bossy! There’s also a creepy connection between leather sex, ‘Star Trek’ and the Renaissance Faire.”

- Comedian Margaret Cho

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/11/2007 11:52:02 PM   
proudsub


Posts: 6142
Joined: 1/31/2004
From: Washington
Status: offline
quote:

but that damn love factor gets in the way.


We've had a few threads on this, here are two of them:
Can love get in the way?
Love in D/s


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proudsub

"Without goals you become what you were. With goals you become what you wish." .

"You are entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts"--Alan Greenspan


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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/12/2007 8:57:39 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		My advice is that instead of making the harshness into a "Harsh Vacation" for the relationship, begin to integrate it more regularly and frequently into your everyday life.  The more you make it a contrast, the more work it will seem to go back and forth. 

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Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/12/2007 3:49:36 PM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline 		When we play in unfamiliar areas, we go slowly, with babysteps. Until we know for sure, how each other is reacting. I might make more effort to ensure that my responses are accurate ie not making too much of a fuss when being flogged, incase i put him off 'hurting' me and have him wanting to stop.
Over the years, as we learn, some areas have been pushed limit wise for us both. Where as once he would gently humiliate me, now, safe in the knowledge that my ego boundries are not made of glass, he'll be far more intense. Or providing pain, he'll go harder for me, not because he's a sadist, but he has now learnt how to extract something for him, from this form of play.
Playing at different levels, is frustrating. But ive found by clearly explaining 'when you do this, i felt this' when you did it harder, i got hotter. I dont assume he knows my mind, i invite him in, within our after care, we discuss what was hot, and explore the need its feeding and how. So that we can hit the spot again.
There are areas where he does not fulfill my need. That tends to be for specific types of play, where my fetish is not shared by him, and he has yet to learn a way of incorporating my fetish in suiting his needs or after he's considered it, has decided i am not getting that form of play.
Or in the case of poly. I realise, that it aint ever going to happen. So a whole avenue i anticipated in naiivity at the out as going to experience, is not on the cards.
I completely accept his wishes, and respect them. The need is not strong enough to warrant moaning about or leaving.
And ive noticed, that these deficits or excesses in need harmony, change over the months. Some times, we are so in harmony, sometimes, you'd never believe that we are in this to get our needs met its so dead. Just the natural rise and fall of the tides.
little1

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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/12/2007 9:46:29 PM   
pup


Posts: 69
Joined: 1/1/2004
From: Anaheim, CA, US
Status: offline 		Thank you very much for the insight.

DominaSmartass...  very much so telling each other each time bit by bit to try to correct and always getting somewhat frustrated over each others ability to achieve what we communicate we want.

It isnt really possible to make it more that a harsh training period, as I have to be let up sometime to work. lol

The betas are just too new, they could never come close, and frankly I would wind up tricking them too easy. ROFL
I think they are too scared to say no to Alpha pup sometimes, or want to please.. one or the other.

She and I will keep communicating and working on it to build a better training space.


_____________________________

A pony boy, a puppy, and many others trapped in a cage..

(in reply to Sirandlittle1)
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RE: Successfully communicating to a Dominant to train h... - 5/13/2007 10:57:45 AM   
GentleDom3nNipps


Posts: 8
Joined: 10/21/2006
Status: offline 		If you have tried communication, and have given it an honest effort, then perhaps the dynamic simply isn't working for either of you
Well said, honesty is one of the key's in any relationship but i feel even more so in bdsm when every feeling intesifies, love, lust, pleasure, fear, doubt it all is made stronger by the intense bond bdsm involves.  I echo this earlier psoter and say sit down, take the time to let him know your thought's, fear's, and concearns so that you may both be able to tackle the problem and move past it.  In any realtionship the intesnity eb's and flow's but in all healthy relationships, nilla or bdsm, gay or straight communication is always the oil that helps the relationship move along and grow.

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