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RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 8:03:15 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess
I sat and watched for a while and then she asked that i help her to do various things ... which i did, partly out of boredom, and partly to use it as a chance to hurt him, which i know is so so wrong ... it just seemed a good idea at the time.


Wow, did I read that right????

As others have mentioned, I think you may want to do some soul searching and figure out if poly is right for you. From what you have written I can't see any indication that poly relationships would be the best fit for you.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to littlesubjess)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 8:04:15 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline 		"suffering in silence" is great if you are into the martyr trip, or you want to run around flying the "poor abused/neglected me" banner.  it doesn't do much for this slave, but some folks get off on it.
 
this slave could be wrong, but perhaps your issue isn't so much that she "isn't listening to you and hearing what you are saying" but more like "isn't going to modify her behavior for you".
 
it is required and expected that this slave express her opinions, thoughts, feelings, etc. in a respectful manner, either verbally, or through writings in a journal.  the expression, however, is enough for this slave.  there is no expectation that Master will conduct Himself any differently, merely because this slave has expressed an opinion.

(in reply to littlesubjess)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 8:10:28 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		So staying busy so one does not appear needy is a retarded lil game? What about a poly Mistress who emotionally manipulates her subs by treating them unfairly in comparison to each other? She's the one who is playing games. For poly to work, subs must be treated equally. Anyone who can't do that shouldn't be poly.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 5/10/2007 8:22:22 AM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to HellsMichelle)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 9:22:38 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

So staying busy so one does not appear needy is a retarded lil game? What about a poly Mistress who emotionally manipulates her subs by treating them unfairly in comparison to each other? She's the one who is playing games. For poly to work, subs must be treated equally. Anyone who can't do that shouldn't be poly.


Well, to be fair...

The next time you try to communicate your feelings to her and she treats you like shit, instead of arguing with her, make yourself invisible on messenger for a few days. When you talk to her again, don't stay on the phone or talk to her on messenger for more than 15 minutes. Tell her you're busy. If you make yourself appear busy and hard to reach, she will notice you alot more. The last thing you want to do is appear needy. If this doesn't get her attention or if through self-analysis, you discover poly isn't for you, end the relationship. Trust someone who learned this from personal experience: Unless unfairness is one of your cravings, putting up with it will ultimately destroy you.

...this advice IS suggesting manipulation as a way to *get noticed*. It's pretty difficult to see it any other way.

No-one can really know if she's being unfairly treated, though I'd agree that if she can't find whatever it takes to be content for the majority of the time, then she'll continue to be unhappy.

agirl





(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 9:41:01 AM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		The OP gave specific examples of being treated unfairly. As for my advice.....you know the old saying that you can't con a con? The same holds true for manipulation. It's called karma.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to agirl)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 10:04:21 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

 

  • I cant help feeling jealous when she is with them and not me.
  • she asked that i help her to do various things ... which i did, partly out of boredom, and partly to use it as a chance to hurt him
  • i felt pangs of jealousy.


jess,
Your Domme deserves better.

Your "submission" seems to be focused on submitting to sensations and experience you want, need, and enjoy. Not that it makes you unique in that regard, but you need to appreciate that is the image you are conveying. You are also possessive, illustrated by your jealousy. A submissive doesn't "own" a Domme/Dom; the dynamic should be just the opposite. It should have been seen as a privilege to assist her taking pleasure in another submissive. Next time, perhaps she should instead send you away, or lock you in a closet so you could appreciate the opportunity.

What does your "collar" mean to you? Did it entitle you to privileges or your Domme?

This is "silent"?
quote:

I understand that I must accept this if I am to pursue a long term D/s relationship with her.
Do you really?

Use this experience, and appreciate the opportunity it gives you to learn more about yourself. Being a topping submissive isn't a "bad" thing. "Bad" shouldn't be applied to any desire. It's "good" in fact if portrayed honestly because expectations and dynamic are clear to all involved. Go with it.

The 'poly' aspect, focused attention, even the feeling of "suffering in silence" are symptomatic; not of a problem but of who you are. You can fight it, attempt to change it, or go with it. Trying to fit someone else into it - won't work.

Good luck!

(in reply to HellsMichelle)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 10:21:47 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The OP gave specific examples of being treated unfairly. As for my advice.....you know the old saying that you can't con a con? The same holds true for manipulation. It's called karma.


She gave examples of her perception of how things have been. There's an important angle missing.

And, it's called being silly and messing around, not karma.

agirl

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 11:12:31 AM   
lovewithoutfear


Posts: 153
Joined: 7/11/2005
Status: offline 		defiantbadgirl wrote:
"For poly to work, subs must be treated equally. Anyone who can't do that shouldn't be poly. "

I disagree.  For poly to work (in a D/s context or otherwise), all parties involved need to feel that things are fair and their needs are being met.  For some people (myself included) "equal" treatment is not necessary for this. Among other things, people's needs for contact, attention, service, SM, etc. all vary because we are all individuals.  I don't find it fruitful to compare myself to others in Sir's life and keep score of how much they are "getting" versus what I am "getting."  Of course he takes care not to rub my nose in such things, too.

The thing I noticed about jess's situation is not so much the unequal treatment (the other relationships are of longer standing after all) as the communication difficulties, in both directions.  Subs whining and throwing tantrums doesn't work; Doms not being sensitive to subs' feelings doesn't work either.  And from the information given it's hard to tell which of these behaviors came first in this situation.  Both need to stop.  But it hasn't anything really to do with the unequal treatement per se, it has to do with how the D and the s are handling one of them being unhappy about something the other is not willing to change. 

Regards
JY

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 11:34:11 AM   
FelinePersuasion


Posts: 4792
Joined: 11/20/2004
Status: offline 		DB you did not say be busy you said  tell her you're busy so she will miss you and seek youout.. Being busy, truely busy is one thing ACTING or SAYING you're busy in hopes she'll seek you out is not busy and it's a stupid game.

< Message edited by FelinePersuasion -- 5/10/2007 11:37:52 AM >

_____________________________

Most of the time if it looks like BS, smells like BS, you probably should not t taste it to see if, in fact, it is BS.


(in reply to lovewithoutfear)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 12:13:29 PM   
littlesubjess


Posts: 305
Joined: 2/2/2006
Status: offline 		Hi, thanks for all the responses.

A lot of what has been said has made good sense to me, and has helped me to see things in a different light.

With regard to whether or not poly is suited to me ... I don't know .... perhaps this will be a learning curve for me and will help me to answer that question in the long run. I was collared for 12 months to a Dom/me m/f couple for most of last year and the start of this year ... I class that as poly, although obviously a different kind to the current situation. I did enjoy that, and the varied lifestyle that it offered. I found it more fulfilling than a one-to-one relationship.

But anyway ...I text her today to ask how she was and to tell her that i felt pretty bad about last night, apologising if i had upset her ... her response was that she felt like shit too and thought she may need to "take some time out to think about things".

I sent a message back asking her what she wanted to think about, and if she would be online this evening. I received no response. I tried to call her and she never answered. I get the impression she is ignoring me tonight. If she needs space, then fair enough, but i perhaps would have prefered that she confirm this first. Now there is nothing I can do .. just wait and see what happens i suppose.

I think i am probably more likely to walk away from this than persue it, judging by how i feel at the moment, and the way that the above responses have made me think. I'm not sure ... I'll keep you all posted lol.

Jessica x



_____________________________

And on the eighth day, He created Jessica ...

Anything is possible if you try hard enough ...... xxx

Only the one who hurts you can make you feel better. Only the one who inflicts the pain can take it away.

(in reply to FelinePersuasion)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 12:43:37 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Well, at least she apologized. Have to give her credit for that. Maybe she's realizing that she shouldn't take on more subs than she can equally distribute her time and attention to. Glad to hear you're going to walk away from the situation if things don't change. Remember, by accepting a collar, you're only agreeing to be unequal  to the Dom or Domme. That unequality doesn't extend to their other subs.

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to littlesubjess)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 3:15:23 PM   
shyinini


Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline 		When her newer sub comes to stay, she doesnt come online and requests that i dont text or call her whilst he's there. I can understand that because she obviously wants to spend time with him. However, not last time i saw her, but the time before, she accepted calls and text messages from him the whole time i was there.

RED FLAG!! She is being unfair to you. Unfairness serves no purpose and leads to deep resentment that is difficult if not impossible to overcome.

Never could I be in this situation with a Dom.
FAIR is not something to measure a relationship by or anything else in life.
NOTHING IS FAIR.

_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.


(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 3:21:10 PM   
shyinini


Posts: 550
Joined: 5/4/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

Well, at least she apologized. Have to give her credit for that. Maybe she's realizing that she shouldn't take on more subs than she can equally distribute her time and attention to.


Excuse me...she apologized for upsetting her, not the situation.
And where might I ask do you read any of the rest of your quote into her response to jessica??
Maybe I read worth shit !
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess
I text her today to ask how she was and to tell her that i felt pretty bad about last night, apologising if i had upset her ... her response was that she felt like shit too and thought she may need to "take some time out to think about things".


_____________________________

With grace and gratitude, I am owned.
A Man who always seeks to be the best He can be for you
is the only Man truly worthy of being called Sir.


(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 5:00:15 PM   
derfrewop


Posts: 74
Joined: 5/10/2007
From: Vancouver
Status: offline 		I think my view is likely to be unpopular but it comes from my experience. I believe this sub has put the Domme in an impossible position.

Bluntly, the Domme needs to get rid of littlesubjess before her increasingly extreme acting out causes serious problems like injury to another sub. If she is a really good Domme, she ought to find jess a Dom who knows how to handle issues of  of abandonment and is prepared to exert the enourmous amount of effort and attention that jess seems to need.

When I was a sub, the biggest issue I had to overcome was the need for attention. I speak for myself and my own experiences but I have seen a lot of people who are subs because of a mistaken belief. that goes like this: "I desperately want somebody who will pay attention to me so that I can feel worth loving. A dom is always paying attention and if I submit I will be paid attention to and loved" I believe most of us have had experiences with subs who were not so much subs as people who are so desperate for attention that they would do anything to get it. Unfortunately, a deep need for attention is incompatible with a poly relationship. A good Dom will try to find a better position for jess. On the other hand, a good dom would avoid collaring a sub until they knew if the sub was appropriate.

Am I certain that this is the case here? No but from what is here on her post, it sure looks like it. Each of the issues raised seems to be about not always being the center of the Dommes focus and attention.

"but I cant help feeling jealous when she is with them and not me."
"cause general grief when she spent more time online or r/t with them than me"
"messages from him the whole time i was there"
"use it as a chance to hurt him"
"refrained from taking me into the playroom whilst she played with other subs"

All of her other "attempts" to deal with the issues also seem to be targeted more on getting attention than actually solving the problem

"I used to throw tantrums and cause general grief "
"request that i join them. I sat and watched for a while... partly to use it as a chance to hurt him"
"refrained from taking me into the playroom whilst she played with other subs"
"It erupted into an argument and with her storming offline. This was the last thing i wanted..."
"I have tried to discuss things with her before only to face similar consequence."
"i must live a life of silence, of keeping my mouth shut" (attention grabbing drama or what?)

I have no intention or desire to belittle jess. This equating of attention and love is a common problem for many subs and a fair number of vanillas. As I said, I too suffered a lot for this knowledge. But unless her dom is some sort of superman who can change peoples basic makeup, it is not possible for her get jess beyond this point unless she abandons all of her other subs. For those of you who thought the Domme was wrong for her "unfair" attention allocation, ask yourself, How bad would you think her for abandoning 2 subs with a combined total of 61/2 years of service simply to help a new sub with only a few r/t encounters?

derfrewop

(in reply to littlesubjess)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 5:08:48 PM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: defiantbadgirl

The OP gave specific examples of being treated unfairly. As for my advice.....you know the old saying that you can't con a con? The same holds true for manipulation. It's called karma.


WOW you sound like an irate 2 year old "its not fair!!! it should be fair!!! its not fair!!! if it isnt fair it isnt right it isnt really poly blah blah" Im sorry but who the hell are you to be judging this Mistress who you dont know, Many poly relationships arent based on all slaves beeing equal and while i agree that I personlay wouldnt want to be in a poly relationship where all slaves wherent treated equaly it is hardly the case that such relashonships that arent all fair and equal like arent actually poly or are as you say manipulative, I see no evadence of this beeing the case and how do any of us know that this "unfairness" wasnt explained to her befor she exepted the collar and that now she sees she doesnt really like it?? You really do sound like a small child throwing a temper tantrum!!

Oh and yeah LIFE ISNT FAIR!!!

Magik's slave

< Message edited by MagiksSlave -- 5/10/2007 5:10:11 PM >

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 6:24:10 PM   
defiantbadgirl


Posts: 2988
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		A two year old? Wow, coming from someone who spells like a third grader, I'll take that as a compliment. Of course life isn't fair. But family, friends, and others who are close are supposed to be. Nobody would want to be deliberately unfair to someone they care about.

< Message edited by defiantbadgirl -- 5/10/2007 6:25:03 PM >

_____________________________


Only in the United States is the health of the people secondary to making money. If this is what "capitalism" is about, I'll take socialism any day of the week.


Collared by MartinSpankalot May 13 2008

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 6:36:20 PM   
GeekyGirl


Posts: 905
Joined: 8/21/2006
Status: offline 		I'm one of those attention-hungry, needy, types with major abandonment issues...and Jess, you sound just like me. I would seriously suggest finding a monogamous relationship. I don't think your domme is being unfair or being a bad person...sounds to me like she was genuinely trying to involve you with the subs she already has and make you feel like a part of the group. However, this dynamic is obviously not satisifying to you. It's not fair to either you, your domme, OR the other subs for this relationship to continue.

Trust me, I SO understand where you are coming from. I'm so much like you, and I also tried poly once for the sake of making someone I cared for happy...the anger it caused in me was FRIGHTENING. I started having horrible fantasies about doing very terrible things to the other girl against her will just because I HATED her so much for stealing my Daddy from me...I had to make the decision to walk away from the situation and be fair to all involved, especially myself.

Some of us just need more attention than others. It doesn't make you a bad person but it's a special need that a prospective dom/me needs to be aware of.


_____________________________

"It's nothing that I understand, but when in your arms you have complete power over me. So be gentle if you please, 'cause your hands are in my hair, but my heart is in your teeth and it makes me want to make you near me always."

(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Silent Submission - 5/10/2007 6:57:39 PM   
Domin8tingUrDrmz


Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline 		Who determines what is and is not fair?  In my opinion, it seems fair that this Domme is introducing the new sub gradually into an already established situation.  Just because jess doesn't find it fair does not mean that it isn't.

_____________________________

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(in reply to defiantbadgirl)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Silent Submission - 5/11/2007 7:24:27 AM   
Sirandlittle1


Posts: 538
Joined: 12/22/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlesubjess

Hi, thanks for all the responses.

A lot of what has been said has made good sense to me, and has helped me to see things in a different light.

With regard to whether or not poly is suited to me ... I don't know .... perhaps this will be a learning curve for me and will help me to answer that question in the long run. I was collared for 12 months to a Dom/me m/f couple for most of last year and the start of this year ... I class that as poly, although obviously a different kind to the current situation.Very different, that's two Dominants and you the only sub. Loads of attention. I did enjoy that, and the varied lifestyle that it offered. I found it more fulfilling than a one-to-one relationship.

But anyway ...I text her today to ask how she was and to tell her that i felt pretty bad about last night, apologising if i had upset her ... her response was that she felt like shit too and thought she may need to "take some time out to think about things". ie. leave me alone to think.
I sent a message back clearly not doing as you were told to asking her what she wanted to think about, and if she would be online this evening. I received no response.No shit Sherlock! I tried to call her and she never answered. I get the impression she is ignoring me tonight. Ah, the penny drops.If she needs space, then fair enough, but i perhaps would have prefered that she confirm this first. Which part of 'i need time out' didnt you get?Now there is nothing I can do .. just wait and see what happens i suppose. Bollox. Start thinking about specifically, what triggers your jealousy, what your having issues with, what makes it harder, easier, so that when you do get the opportunity to discuss it with her, your ready.

I think i am probably more likely to walk away from this than persue it, judging by how i feel at the moment, and the way that the above responses have made me think. I'm not sure ... I'll keep you all posted lol.

Jessica x
Im not sure what you negotiated re the poly before hand. But there does seem to be some hurt feelings on your part. Its in everyones interest to get that out in the open, so that it can be worked on. Either to the point of saying no thankyou, its a limit, or yes please, but could you help me with it by doing x
 
Not everyone shares well. Some of us have such a high opinion of themselves, that they can insist on them being the ONLY one. And that's cool.
 
I get told to do things that are really hard for me. When the going gets tough, my dominant is there to discuss it with me. The attempting to deal with a subs emotions via a chat facility, when you are clearly in the local seems odd to me. What's wrong with face to face.
 
And being in a room whilst she plays with aother and finding yourself bored? Doesnt sound like the chemistry is happening much.
She knows you need to talk. She knows that she needs to think before that talk happens. Be ready for the talk.
little1




(in reply to littlesubjess)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Silent Submission - 5/11/2007 9:05:30 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The major problem I see you having is that you are trying to measure out and compare what you get vs what they get.
The two more senior submisives (senior meaning they were there before you) have paid their dues.
As for your visit when you were sick. What she's supposed to play with you when you are sick? And if you are not available for play for whatever reason she is supposed to just not play???

Who is supposed to be in control of the relationship? You or her? If she is supposed to be in control then stop trying to control her.

As for "storming out" (perspective is usually scewed a bit when this is said) I know there are times when I simply have to just walk away for a little bit a tool to avoid blasting into someone. Even the most patient person in the world can find themselves challanged beynd their ability to remain calm from time to time.
Walking away certainly is a healthy way to deal with the situation. (assuming that when heads have cooled down a little the communication resumes)

(in reply to Sirandlittle1)
Profile   Post #: 40
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