Friends first?

Friends first? (Full Version)

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bowandserve -> Friends first? (5/9/2007 2:48:21 PM)
I have a lot going on right now and haven't had the time - ok patience - to deal with searching for and breaking in a new sub. I should mention that I'm looking for one long term so I also cut loose all the casual ones for the same reason- streamline and focus my "real" life first - it was too frustrating anyway. I know I need to reassess my own domme side and how it's portrayed as I've had many just poof in the beginning (if you've read my earlier posts). I tend to be attracted to newbies so that's not entirely unexpected at this point. However, there is one lingering one that had some potential. My thought is - drop the intensity and be friends, maybe even "date" first while I sort through my own stuff. Don't start with the training or serving right off the bat. Perhaps he could "help" me clean or be "super nice" and I could let him of course pamper me a bit but nothing formal. If we both want the relationship part as well it only makes sense to make sure we're compatible in other ways too - which seem to click already. Then later on move to the daily rituals and training... Has that ever worked for anyone? Edit to add - for the sub - would that be confusing for you? He's never truly served anyone.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 2:55:20 PM)
Sure it could work, and has for many. For a newbie however? It's a very likely recipe for disaster. Even if you keep things solely to friendship with no dating and no future expectation of more than friendship, it would still be pretty tough for him to keep things happy and cool. As well, you really get all the benefits of his work while he gets the "pleasure" of pampering you knowing there is actually no security that you'll be there in the long run. It's extremely questionable for a person to reap the benefits of their work without willing to put any work in themselves to train and enforce properly for the work- specially someone totally new.

spanklette -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 2:58:03 PM)
One of the common traits of being new in the lifestyle is that you tend to want to try everything. I think if you're trying to keep someone who is new at arm's length, they're likely to go find someone who will give them the attention and experiences that they want. Of course, that is just my opinion.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 3:12:49 PM)
For me, "Friends first" is the ONLY way it works. We become friends...we date casually....then things like obedience and service are introduced slowly as my trust level builds. If he asks for that stuff too soon, I'll flip out and break things off. Just how I am. I like the dominance to leak in slowly and subtly as I become closer and closer to him.

RavenMuse -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 4:08:58 PM)
It is a compatability issue. When I move I move fast, those who pussyfoot around, don't know what they want and can't recognise the potential ain't going to be compatable. I am used to the Dynamic hitting in hard and early (And feeling that 'spark' right from the get go when we meet in real life) That rather puts the 'slow burners' right out of the picture. My ex-wife was acknowledging she was fully Mine within an hour of us meeting for the first time in real life (That relationship lasted just short of a decade), The girl before her (mother to My Son) caught My attention by basicaly offering herself to Me (5.5 year relationship), My last TPE met Me for the first time at lunchtime and had submitted to Me by the time I left to head to a munch that evening (that relationship WAS short, just six months) My current girl, had already made her mind up BEFORE we met, meeting simply confirmed it and she was Mine imediatly (That was in January) Fast doesn't automaticaly mean casual..... If you need things to go slow then look for someone who is compatable with that but don't make the mistake of thinking there is any less or greater chance of things working. Speed isn't the factor, it is compatability that determines it.

bowandserve -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 4:38:51 PM)
I've always had the fast and furious as well and now I'm thinking ramping it up slowly might work better. Those have been the ones that run the other way once they get a taste. That it became too real and they were overwhelmed. Oh he already has bowed and kissed my feet and begged to be my slave so that is well established. I'm thinking moreso of not implementing the daily rituals, the journaling, the expectations of prioritizing from day 1. As I just read in another post - making a "learning" period before a "training" period. Slowly give him more expectations, allow him to learn my needs and desires by experiencing rather than handing over a list and expecting full compliance. This is the aspect that I'm wondering is confusing to subs... the transition... or as some say they need that to feel comfortable enough to submit. I guess it does depend on the sub. (Woohoooo I just made it to curious!)

RavenMuse -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 4:47:21 PM)
How far I will take them is built up along with the level of trust and hand in hand with Me learning them. But I expect submission and obedience from the very start. But having said that I am focused up at the TPE end of things and a girl suited to that is only going to be confused if you try to begin with things being TOO light, she would suffer from the lack of structure and control and that in turn would harm the relationship. I tend to view the 'slow burners' as being predominantly lower-level dynamics. (Not saying they always are, just how I tend to view them)

GeekyGirl -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 5:01:26 PM)
I don't necessarily agree RavenMuse. For me, I have had very high level D/s dynamics...I'm also cynical and untrusting and I simply can't achieve a TPE dynamic without a VERY slow building of trust and love. I could submit rather quickly on a casual/low-level. But truly handing my life over to him in a TPE situation requires a lot of trust and for me that doesn't come easily.My previous master owned every part of me and I'd have given him just about anything...but he had to work pretty hard to reach that level with me. Some of us have been hurt a lot in D/s relationships and just can't go to the next level of submission unless it is reached slowly.

MadameButterfly -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 5:08:33 PM)
Ramping it up bit by bit is great idea... the dating idea is dangerous it burrs the lines... I have been through this personally and it backfired in my face. Even the smallest of protocols or tasks is a good starting point (at least in my experience). Dating is seen as a mainstream activity or vanilla if you will... so that is inevitably going to confuse this person as to the type of relationship that he or she wants or perhaps give them the misconception that this is what a D/s relationship is. Which in the future when you are ready to ramp things up there will be feelings of frustration, disappointment and even defeat. Something as simple as honorifics is an excellent place to to start, it takes the relationship out of the realm of vanilla and starts a path to something more if the choice to place more upon on the bottom should arise. Positive experiences is something that both parties want... no one wants to walk away feeling nothing but negative about the relationship that a person have romanticized or fantasized about for a long time. I have currently taken on a boy; who is very new to service and D/s, and I have taken the day by day approach. Each day is a new step, each new task and obstacle is a new challenge for the both of us. Do I care how long the relationship will last? No. I am concerned about fulfilling My needs as well his. There is always an opportunity for growth in any relationship regardless of how long it lasts. It is important that we as Dominants and or Tops do not overwhelm our bottoms/subs/slaves. When they feel overwhelmed or concerned about success that is where the real issues and fears of disappointment start to develop. It is hard enough when you are a seasoned bottom/slave/sub, a situation where this individual is new and the Top is not... has to create lingering fears and feelings of insecurities about the relationship and more importantly themselves. I believe it is my responsibility to create an environment within the realm of the desired relationship; where my bottom can come to me expressing their feelings which empowers me to assist them in finding their own security in the relationship as well as build confidence in themselves thus positive reactions to varying situations that I create for the bottom. Madame Butterfly

RavenMuse -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 5:09:46 PM)
As said sweetie, a matter of compatability. What you need would either not apply as I'd draw it from you OR you simply wouldn't be compatable. The point being made was that fast doesn't mean casual 4.5, 5.5 and just shy of 10 years ain't causal by any stretch of the imagination and ALL My relationships TPE and lower level dynamics have always started fast with submission occuring, what most would consider VERY speedily (Often hours after first meeting). So taking things slow doesn't automaticaly mean any more chance of success. People are either compatable or not. And some of My girls HAVE been ones who have been hurt badly prior, I inspired their trust as well as drew their submission. In short, I was VERY compatable and both the spark and the dynamic was strong right from the outset.

GeekyGirl -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 5:20:16 PM)
I completely agree that it depends on the individual and different people have different needs...for me, it just has to be slow. Ask me to call you sir the first time I meet you and I'm liable to cancel the meeting and tell you to kiss my ass....Submission, for ME, is earned over time. You said you had girls you considered themselves "yours" prior to even meeting. Unless I've met you several times and gone out with you several times, how do I even know you're worthy of friendship, let alone romance, let alone submission, let alone masterhood? I'm afraid that for me that situation doesn't equate to any form of common sense...but obviously it has worked for you, and is a good thing for you.

RavenMuse -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 5:32:19 PM)
I don't EARN their submission sweetie. I inspire it to be given, that little ol' thang called charisma... from there they learn to trust and things slowly get built. I don't jump through hoops and play the "Prove it" game according to the rules of a relucatant girl. Proof is in the doing, the building, the moving things forward..... any silly games played before prove nothing relivant, maybe relivant to a lower level dynamic but the only proof of commitment and work is doing it, the only proof of ability to give her what she needs is in the giving.... I've had girls with very broken wings still make that leap of faith.... and soon I've had them flying again with all the proof they needed. There are very few girls strong enough and capable of being what I need..... I've simply been lucky in finding them :)

junecleaver -> RE: Friends first?javascript:checkqrp('1003905','RE: Friends first?'); (5/9/2007 5:42:22 PM)
-fast reply- I've never done the friends first thing. I tend to submit quickly, but I tend to get into a lot things quickly. It's the way I take things in I guess. Of course, I've never really been taken advantage of and my trust has never been abused or misplaced. The outline of our D/s dynamic was pretty much established from day two or three. I guess what I mean by that is we had a direction we both wanted to go in and we built our relationship in that direction. It just didn't start off with 'let's be friends' it started out with some power exchange.

sambamanslilgirl -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 6:20:30 PM)
Daddy and i started off as "friends only" when He first messaged me. at first i wasn't looking for another "dom" or "master" on the site where we met because i was actually trying to stay away from BDSM. since i had just left my former, Daddy took things slow taking interest in what i liked and disliked before moving into talk about a Daddy-daughter D/s.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 6:32:41 PM)
For me, the issue is that the OP has herself realized that she isn't ready to be in any sort of serious commitment or think about long term type stuff any time in the near future- yet she's cultivating this green fresh newbie to be submissive to her and do all sorts of stuff. I have no issues moving really slow or really fast- as long as everyone's on the same page and willing to accept what's going on. I think in this case I see a real chance for heartbreak and confusion at the end of it, and perhaps even a chunk of taking advantage mixed in.

ownedgirlie -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 6:50:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse My current girl, had already made her mind up BEFORE we met, meeting simply confirmed it and she was Mine imediatly (That was in January) This is how it worked for me, as well. That was almost three years ago.

RavenMuse -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 6:59:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse My current girl, had already made her mind up BEFORE we met, meeting simply confirmed it and she was Mine imediatly (That was in January) This is how it worked for me, as well. That was almost three years ago. Ain't it just wonderful when what you just feel you KNOW proves to be true [8D] I knew she was the right one before We met too (Hell I had My suspicions about her being the right one before I sent an Intro... It wasn't exactly 'speculative' g) My instinct was right on the ball [:D]

earthycouple -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 7:08:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse My current girl, had already made her mind up BEFORE we met, meeting simply confirmed it and she was Mine imediatly (That was in January) This is how it worked for me, as well. That was almost three years ago. Ain't it just wonderful when what you just feel you KNOW proves to be true [8D] I knew she was the right one before We met too (Hell I had My suspicions about her being the right one before I sent an Intro... It wasn't exactly 'speculative' g) My instinct was right on the ball [:D] I'm walking into this as I type....he'll be here Sunday...I just know he's right. He just knows I'm right. We are friends via online and phone I suppose...but when he gets here no casual dating, not cutesy stuff...I'm jumping full force...but you all know that about me already...... JUMP!

ownedgirlie -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 7:11:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RavenMuse Ain't it just wonderful when what you just feel you KNOW proves to be true [8D] Oh, heavens yes, and in my case it was more ways than one. I already knew the desire and drive were there. But I had never been "real time" before. I had to prove to myself that I had it in me. I felt I did, but until I knelt before him, I had no idea if I was all talk & fantasy or the real deal. Just the other day we were reminiscing about our first meeting. Both of us knew that night I was already his. [:)]

RavenMuse -> RE: Friends first? (5/9/2007 7:19:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: earthycouple I'm walking into this as I type....he'll be here Sunday...I just know he's right. He just knows I'm right. We are friends via online and phone I suppose...but when he gets here no casual dating, not cutesy stuff...I'm jumping full force...but you all know that about me already...... JUMP! Best of luck to both of you. For some of us there isn't much option to do otherwise. I can't do 'nilla, so "Dating" isn't an option. It begins with submission and builds from there, the leap of faith needed for that is something I inspire in those compatable. It has been a rocky road a couple of times with Me and My girl but we KNOW where this road leads (a steel collar isn't the only metal band I plan to be putting on her in the next few years g)

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